Solo
[14] Master
I'll agree to an extent but as a Siegfried player I find Nightmare to be considerably more safe and does more damage.
Nightmare General Discussion/Q&A
- Thread starter Tiamat
- Start date
Engared
[10] Knight
You should follow the Shen Yuan school of Siegfried. Then you'll see how strong Sieg really is in this game lol.
Solo
[14] Master
I will, I want to improve my game.
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
I dunno if its been posted in another thread or not, but I don't see anyone discussing wakeup options after FCB+G
If they stay down, 1a for 60 damage and GS KBE for 70 damage/RO are guaranteed. 4a+b will also catch them if they guard or roll in any direction except NM's right.
If they ukemi, you can "tech trap" them with a grab by turning around with (4) and then grabbing. Its duckable, but its a very small window to duck. If they back ukemi, you have to hold 4 a little longer.
66B is also a force block whether they ukemi or not, although they can GI if they ukemi. The window is small though.
2b+kBE isn't a bad option here, since the quake is unavoidable unless they ukemi and jump.
If they stay down, 1a for 60 damage and GS KBE for 70 damage/RO are guaranteed. 4a+b will also catch them if they guard or roll in any direction except NM's right.
If they ukemi, you can "tech trap" them with a grab by turning around with (4) and then grabbing. Its duckable, but its a very small window to duck. If they back ukemi, you have to hold 4 a little longer.
66B is also a force block whether they ukemi or not, although they can GI if they ukemi. The window is small though.
2b+kBE isn't a bad option here, since the quake is unavoidable unless they ukemi and jump.
AlphaKEG
[10] Knight
I want to attend! Lemme in lemme in lemme in! \m/
KingAce
HERMITISM
An annoying thing that I have run into is people attacking on wake up after 3B NSSbA....3B their sorry brains all over the floor.
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
I dunno about that. If 3b gets blocked, then they'll likely have a way to punish it.
I've started to do 2B just like the old days in SC4, though it doesn't hit backroll or left sideroll, it stuffs aggressive opponents and leaves you in a nice position if it gets blocked.
KingAce
HERMITISM
In theory yes, but you should also consider that the second 3B will be safer on block in regards to range. But you know it's a meta game thing.
2B is awesome.
A on block into throw is also awesome. That's an astaroth strat.
Slade
[14] Master
Wouldn't they be ducking in anticipation of the second A anyways?
KingAce
HERMITISM
In theory. But you've never seen the strat, no one has...so no one ducks. And ducking is a terrible idea. It's a meta game thing. Tekken has similar tactics.
Engared
[10] Knight
New tact: NSS at long range, poking with NSS B and NSS A. Discuss.
Engared
[10] Knight
I have been finding NSS at long range to be quite effective. You can delay it as long as you like, step forward or step backwards and you can go into GS at any point. Also, NSS B is very difficult to see if your are delaying it properly and you can mix it up with NSS A or NSS A+B if they are blocking it everytime. You can also go into GS to punish them for ducking with GS B or stepping with GS A.
Backstep NSS back-step cancel also seems to be super effective at medium to long range when your opponent is fishing to kill your backstep. Using Backstep (1 step) + NSS (1/2 step), Nightmare effectively gets a 1 and a half backstep distance. You can then punish your opponent with the appropriate NSS move but i would like to call your attention to NSS B in particular. NSS B is extremely long range and I have been finding that it is a very good long range whiff punisher.
NSS B and 1B should be given serious consideration to be part of Nightmare's primary arsenal when playing the spacing game. 1B at tip range is very safe and can be used to kill backstep, forwardstepping, end of sidestep or whiffs very effectively.
Edit: lol, 1B is only -16 from crouching block. I think its almost unpunishable at tip range and the risk reward is decent at close/medium range as you get a KD and 38 damage. Maybe let's look at some Okizeme from it :D
22B (blocked) into NSS B to bait a retaliation? Think that is any good?
Or how about 22B (blocked at tip) into CE? If they retaliate they will get smacked by the CE and possibly the full 160 damage one if their punishment does not reach.
I've also been finding 8wayrunning at long range to be very effective (more so than step). This is so that you can instantly punish any whiff with 33B.
Can some research also be put into 44 (B) NSS transition? Because if we can get our opponents to block up after this, it can be one of Nightmare's most effective guard break moves.
Backstep NSS back-step cancel also seems to be super effective at medium to long range when your opponent is fishing to kill your backstep. Using Backstep (1 step) + NSS (1/2 step), Nightmare effectively gets a 1 and a half backstep distance. You can then punish your opponent with the appropriate NSS move but i would like to call your attention to NSS B in particular. NSS B is extremely long range and I have been finding that it is a very good long range whiff punisher.
NSS B and 1B should be given serious consideration to be part of Nightmare's primary arsenal when playing the spacing game. 1B at tip range is very safe and can be used to kill backstep, forwardstepping, end of sidestep or whiffs very effectively.
Edit: lol, 1B is only -16 from crouching block. I think its almost unpunishable at tip range and the risk reward is decent at close/medium range as you get a KD and 38 damage. Maybe let's look at some Okizeme from it :D
22B (blocked) into NSS B to bait a retaliation? Think that is any good?
Or how about 22B (blocked at tip) into CE? If they retaliate they will get smacked by the CE and possibly the full 160 damage one if their punishment does not reach.
I've also been finding 8wayrunning at long range to be very effective (more so than step). This is so that you can instantly punish any whiff with 33B.
Can some research also be put into 44 (B) NSS transition? Because if we can get our opponents to block up after this, it can be one of Nightmare's most effective guard break moves.
Slade
[14] Master
Off the top of my head, it's -4 into NSS at the very most (Cerv WR B+K can't interrupt NSS A+B like it can after 3(B) on block), but probably even better than that.
microgamer
[10] Knight
Having been to a few anime conventions that run the un-patched version, I really miss being able to iagA from side/backstep.
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
Actually, its very effective any where. I plan to test how much more unsafe it is than regular backstep soon, but if you backstep NSS cancel, and your opponent correctly guesses your backstep and tries to kill it, it won't register as a counterhit.
That hurts some tools, not to mention itll lower the damage you take. The only down side I can think of would be backstepping 2As or other quick attacks. You might not be able to recover fast enough to punish them because of the NSS cancel.
Thermidor
[10] Knight
Dime stop making Enk look strong D:<
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
Dude, he is. Guy plays so differently in a tournament than he does in casuals.
Thermidor
[10] Knight
No he doesn't most of the mistakes were coming from YOU then again I do have alot of Voldo experience.
Engared
[10] Knight
I was trying to talk about using NSS to cancel backstep. Basically pressed B+K before the backstep animation cancels. Nightmare's mid hit box moves back extremely far when he does this. But B+KG should be interesting to test as well.
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
I like what you were saying about 1B and NSS spacing, will give it food for though in my gameplan.
I looked into this a bit. The NSS transition is +2 on block, tested using 44(B), NSS A+B (i19) trades with NM 4K (i17).
I feel that 44B is an underused move in NM's arsenal. It covers NM's right very well on oki, which is the opposite side that GS B covers. When it hits, and you followup with NSS A+B the 2A+B AT is guaranteed from any range that 44B will hit at, and the range is long enough that alot of the moves that people will use on wakeup to interrupt us can whiff. Main weaknesses it has are being slow and being susceptible to step on one side.
I looked into this a bit. The NSS transition is +2 on block, tested using 44(B), NSS A+B (i19) trades with NM 4K (i17).
I feel that 44B is an underused move in NM's arsenal. It covers NM's right very well on oki, which is the opposite side that GS B covers. When it hits, and you followup with NSS A+B the 2A+B AT is guaranteed from any range that 44B will hit at, and the range is long enough that alot of the moves that people will use on wakeup to interrupt us can whiff. Main weaknesses it has are being slow and being susceptible to step on one side.