α Patroklos General Discussion/ Q&A

No, I'm equating an opinion towards downplaying entirely solid tactics in a competitive setting to something with about as much validity as creationism.

Competitively, non-solid = incorrect. This is an SA, it is for competitive strategy, not what looks good in online casuals.
 
Here's an example:
At a casuals session last night I baited out NM CE so I could stand and JG it rather than just step it and launch with Alpha.
This is not situational, its just messing about. I did it for fun and to look good, but in competitive play the bottom line is the win, nothing else. Messing about is not situational here, its just dumb unless your opponent is completely free.
 
I understand your point, but I'm not saying flair without substance is beneficial, I'm saying options with limited but potentially useful applications are worth keeping in mind unless there is an alternative for that situation which is a straight upgrade from the other option. It can be used as either a flat out gimmick:
Opponent doesn't know how to JG or step BT B+K:B on block; wakeup BT can be used to access BT B+K:B and abuse it in more situations than normal;

or as a legitimate tactic:
Patroklos lands CE, does 661K. None of αPat's wakeup attacks will beat 661K in this situation except for CE. You can't jump or jump attack either when waking up from face down feet towards. αPat can roll backwards to avoid the 661K but this puts him at risk of getting hit by 66A+B during the roll and leaves him at disadvantage if Pat chooses to run up and take his usual mixups, such as run up throw.
Now: Wakeup BT 8A+B beats 661K, 66A+B, and run up throw if these moves are done as soon as Pat enters range. If he takes a bit longer to run up to prevent you from escaping like this, he puts himself at risk of eating CH BT B+K:B, which is not only far stronger than any of αPat's other BT options, but can only be accessed by waking up in BT with A+B+K, unlike other BT moves which can be mashed out from this grounded state (trying to wakeup with 2A will give BT 2A, etc).

Or another situation:
Algol lands 1A, whiffs 3AA tech trap. You could stand up and block the 2nd hit then punish the -14 with JFT for 71 or use meter on 44B+K BE, or you can wait until it whiffs also, stand up, and take a FC 3A+B or 1B:B or whatever, or you can take wakeup BT B+K:B for an 83 damage zero-execution alternative. If either option would KO the opponent, I'm taking the easy combo.

Just because the situations where it's useful might be rare doesn't make it less useful when those situations arise. Options are good. Even something far more situational and useless looking, Aeon's 1B BE → run under → BT B+K combo, has proved useful to me once, where that position swap meant the difference between a loss and a ringout victory, despite huge loss of damage compared to the standard combo options.
 
In the post CE pat oki, he can just run up 66B punish any 8a+b business, so why is this favourable to potentially eating 1K?
 
Syn_SC said:
In the post CE pat oki, he can just run up 66B punish any 8a+b business, so why is this favourable to potentially eating 1K?
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If Pat is going to stop αPat from attacking on wakeup, he will have to take a guess with that 66B. If he waits long enough to see if the opponent will stand up or not, it's past the point where 66B will interrupt everything αPat can do. If he guesses wrong with that 66B, αPat can BT B+K:B punish that whiff (from my testing, JFT, BT B+K:B, and CE are the only fast enough options to punish this whiff from a face up feet away state; 1B:B can be blocked). And if Pat takes the safe route and runs up and tries to react to the option αPat takes, he puts himself at risk of BT B+K:B. BT B+K:B is risky in itself if blocked, so what if αPat takes the same safe route, waking up in BT and waiting to see what Pat will do (if Pat goes for the backthrow, BT B+K:B beats it)? Both players end up waiting for something, because the only alternatives are to guess. So then you have αPat standing still in BT and Pat standing there blocking. Front turned is obviously a preferable state to be in right now, which is where BT 8A+B comes in: a way of creating space and getting away from Pat's normal methods of mixing up a standing opponent, e.g. run up throw or 1K. Sure if he 66Bs he might end up hitting you out of the air during 8A+B, but it all depends on how fast and well the opponent reacts to the situation.

That probably got a bit rambly, but here's the tl;dr:
Opponent realizes BT B+K:B is a threatening interrupt from BT state. Opponent chooses to play it safe, waits for BT B+K:B to come out so they can step and punish. During the time it takes for the opponent to decide that the αPat player chose not to use BT B+K:B because of this risk, αPat can create space with BT 8A+B before opponent can initiate a mixup.

tl;dr tl;dr People play safe vs. αPat because he's αPat and he can take advantage of their hesitation with BT 8A+B when he wakes up in a BT state.
 
Reading that I got one impression:

I truly think you're trying to over complicqte something that is simple. There is nothing wrong with it being simple.
 
I have some basic questions about alpha after getting owned yesterday night by the best french patsuka
Does FC3B:B or FC3B:B BE can be stepped ? about 1B:B ?
33B tracks all sides ? about 2K and FC K ?

;)
 
Are you sure about that? Because the best French Alpha is on Xbl, not PSN lol.
Anyway, FC 3B:B is steppable in between hits, 1B:B has to be jg'd.
33Bs tracking properties change depending on range and how it was inputted but yes it can track like a bitch. FCK tracks to one side, 2K has a shitty hitbox.
 
I didn't update my profile, I have xbl too and it's Razielback, I don't think maxou is still playing.
Thanks for the info but which side ? :D
 
Logan said:
What do you mean by untechable? Can't you always tech a knockdown?
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Example when zwei hits you with 66A+B and then does 8A+B that actually becomes an untechable knockdown. So when you get knocked down and you try to tap G to get straight up it won't work. But I don't know any untechable knockdowns for alpha
 
I think 3B, NH 33B, NH FC 3B:B, NH FC 3B:B BE, BT B+K:B, 22B, 22BA, 11B, 214B+G, and both sides and back throw are untechable knockdowns, but this is entirely from memory so any one of them might be wrong. In general, launches are not techable while knockdowns and stuns are.
 
aPats 1B:B 2363B what's the use of this "combo" the last part seems really weird and pointless. Anyone have suggestions or oppinoins?
 
I'm aware of that. I'm just asking what's the point of that combo. It just pushes the opponent far away, that's it?
 
Robin said:
I'm aware of that. I'm just asking what's the point of that combo. It just pushes the opponent far away, that's it?
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Well, yeah. You ended the stun with 2363B and that's usually what happens when you follow up a stun with a move that gives a similar stun. So, there is no point to it.
 
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