Valid reasons to warrant a Ban.

I totally agree with Oofmatic. Banning for changing the way the game is played is not grounds for ban if its not broken or game breaking, in fact its the basis of character variety. You fight each character differently.
I would also like to point out that Yoda does not avoid ALL highs while standing, I have noticed at least one of Amy's and Talim's highs hitting him. I'll test it later to be sure but I think it was Amy's 6B and Talim's 5AA
 
Tiamat said:
ROFL how can you possibly use that many moves in this game regularly? I know it depends on your character but quite a few can be played very well as 5 move whores.
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I easily use that many moves in a Match regularly... Shit yoshi has one combo that uses almost 10 moves alone... every stance is a move, throw, unblockable, yea I easily use 40
 
most of siegfried's movelist gets him raped on block, have fun trying to use over 15 moves against white chick players who know what they are doing against sieg, people who act like yoda is the only character who cuts down your movelist are funny
 
Tiamat said:
most of siegfried's movelist gets him raped on block, have fun trying to use over 15 moves against white chick players who know what they are doing against sieg, people who act like yoda is the only character who cuts down your movelist are funny
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Hmm if that made sense I would comment it ;) but like i said no matter who I fight even if its yoda I would still use over 15 moves.... easily
 
It doesn't dumb your movelist down, but it does force you to play differently/safer, or lose. Those three characters have the best post-block punishers in the game, not only in terms damage, but in speed and range as well. In other words, many characters get heavily punished after block when they normally wouldn't, do to pushback or forced crouch.

Edit: LOL, I forgot about Amy. No, she doesn't do much damage with 6BB. Nonetheless, it has the best range out of any i11 move, as far as I can tell. She can punish normally safe crap that no other character can on block, and it does add up if you aren't careful.
 
Does this mean we are banning white bitches?

We should. This is Soul Calibur not Desperate Housewives.
 
Wouldnt forcing you to play differently or safer be the same thing as dumbing down your movelist?? ummm yea it would be...

And no even if you play risky against those people it doesnt mean you are going to lose... there is proof of this everywhere in tourneys where sophies and cass's lose to people doing unsafe things all the time,

No one is going to play a completely safe game just because they are playing sophie... if they do then they are a p****y , but then again Yoshi is High RISK High REWARD, I'll throw out "unsafe" moves even still, there are very few people that can punish every unsafe move you throw out on reaction... and if they mess up and I block their punisher... I will punish them right back...

Anyways lol you can stop trying to convince me that I have to cut down on my moves when I play certain people... I already told you this isnt the way I play... Never will be...
 
I'm not saying you have to play a certain way. I'm just saying that, in general, certain characters (i.e. the ones that have a more balanced risk/reward scenario than Yoshi or Siegfried) often have to use some moves more carefully against them, since they're now punishable when they ordinarily aren't. Of course, this is all assuming that the person playing the white chick is both aware of those moves, and can properly punish them (Which is generally harder to do, the less you abuse a move). I'm not saying this means they're the best fucking characters in the game, I'm just saying that some characters really have to alter their game against them if they don't want to lose against better players.
 
Dullyanna said:
I'm not saying you have to play a certain way. I'm just saying that, in general, certain characters (i.e. the ones that have a more balanced risk/reward scenario than Yoshi or Siegfried) often have to use some moves more carefully against them, since they're now punishable when they ordinarily aren't. Of course, this is all assuming that the person playing the white chick is both aware of those moves, and can properly punish them (Which is generally harder to do, the less you abuse a move). I'm not saying this means they're the best fucking characters in the game, I'm just saying that some characters really have to alter their game against them if they don't want to lose against better players.
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It does seem that the sisters, have a very defined advantage in their ability to punish pretty much everything.
 
To my experience, at least offline, it is very easy to punish moves that are 236B punishable. Easy enough that the "you won't get punished every time" argument is very silly. Its harder with the new buffer system, but far from unreliable. Things usually fly just because the person hasn't played the matchup enough to know intuitively that something is punishable. This is a game where people launch punish on whiffs. 236B punish on block isn't rocket science...
 
kittianinja said:
Please can we leave Setsuka out of this.:P
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Setsuka has an i12-i13 punisher from crouch, which means she can get stuff that Sophie can't. She's also white. Her status as a bitch ain't questionable, since she gives some characters a hell of a time (And definitely not just because of the umbrella).
 
Dullyanna said:
Setsuka has an i12-i13 punisher from crouch, which means she can get stuff that Sophie can't. She's also white. Her status as a bitch ain't questionable, since she gives some characters a hell of a time (And definitely not just because of the umbrella).
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And she yells "Die" at the other fighter every other move, which is pretty universally considered a bitchy thing to do.
 
coth_x said:
It does seem that the sisters, have a very defined advantage in their ability to punish pretty much everything.
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yo man, when we played we went toe to toe its not like I dominated you with Cass or Sophie against your Seig. They can punish but I don't think its broken. Punishing is the idea, if there is an opening a person would be a fool to not take it.

point being, they were not easy matches or using the coined termed that I've read here "Win Buttons"
 
Felix007 said:
Guest characters are banned for their hitboxes. None of them have a unique movelist that the primary characters don't already have, and some have larger weapon hitboxes (Scherazeradadedeaherade) and smaller grab reach (Ashlotte). Same goes with custom characters changing normal hitboxes.
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I understand that's the reasoning behind it. I still don't feel like that's a worthwhile reason to ban them. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over them being banned, I'm just taking it as an extreme example. I personally don't see sufficient reason for any of the normal characters (including Vader, Yoda, the Apprentice and Algol) to be banned. The only good reason I see to ban a character is if they are so overpowered that the only way to win would be to pick that character, and a significantly less experienced player could beat a significantly more experienced player who picked any other character.

As it stands, the only character I could ever see potentially fitting that criteria is Hilde.
 
there is no criteria for banning someone..there is no such THING as banning someone. In SFII they didn't BAN guile for his "ticks" they only made it so you "were not suppose to use them." and THAT was an INFINITE!! which is the ONLY thing that has any validity in warranting a ban. I don't care if I lose 50 times ina row to algol..I can think its cheap stupid boring or whatever...but if they other person wants to play that way then fine. If its a COMPETITION then anything should go. If anything I'd say non-tourney play would have more of a reason to ban someone becuase of it just not being fun to play against someone like yoda. But to ban in a tourney where the whole point is to be able to say "I am better?" Or is the point to say "I'm the best person *cough* as long as nobody uses _____ *cough. If it doesn't BREAK the game..don't fix it. The only things that BREAK a game would be a really easy infinite. And realistically even an infinite isn't all unfair as the other person has just as much of a chance to have picked said character as the person that did. But I think everyone agrees infinite=ban just for the sake of keeping the game FUN. And its not like all of hilde's moves come out non-JI-able unblockables or anything...and its not like algol's bubbles make it so you can't block or parry...so I don't see the problem. Yes..yoda is a boring piece of crap to play against...I'll admit that. And for every time I see 1 decent or good yoda I see 100 bad ones...but if he isn't unbeatable then mheee
 
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