Talim in SCVI: Move Study & Analysis

Fuzzieviking said:
I kind of dont like soul charging anymore unless I have them in a corner, I just don't like having to guess how to get back in on them after I got there. Maybe I should start using it at the end of combos when they're downed already or something...
Click to expand...
Yeah using SC after like, a launcher into 4BB works best I feel. But even so, I'm not that upset about the distance. I mean her throws and Wind Cannon do about the same distance. CE is ever farther.

My main issue with her Soul Charge at the moment, is that BK doesn't stand you back up on hit if you duck into it. The K will just whiff and you get punished on hit. There's not much reason to stand block if you feel she's trying to use her Soul Charge buffs. Even so, as I said, if you just play normally instead of rushing to use her SC buffs, it's just playing the same game except now Talim has real punishers.
 
I guess because I can gaurantee damage with her CE after a 236b I would rather that than set myself up for potentially losing meter for nothing.

It's definitely riskier, I Feel, to use her soul charge against people who know the matchup, because she doesn't really have mixups with her buffs, so they always know what to block. And not much of it comes out right away, unlike someone like mina, so you have to do known strings to get into the part where your moves are better.

maybe if aab(b) wnf kk was gauranteed on block or something it'd make her feel a little scarier...

I just feel like it's already so much guessing to get in and do damage, that I'd rather try and exclude leaving that to chance on a soul charge, when CE can do up to 90 damage gaurenteed anyway, Idk if I'm making sense.
 
Finally able to record some aGI stuff.
This is showing the inconsistencies with her Wind Fury auto-parry. There's frames during the spin where she can be hit before the 2nd parry activates.

This is the video that shows the JF cancel on the aGI that skips the twirling animation allowing you to "armor through" High and Mid horis. @speedking1254
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
I also think these evasion Lethals are just flawed at the core. 44B for example is supposed to LH vs low attacks, but because a lot of lows have followup strings or are very long like Groh's stance A low, you end up getting counterhits instead of Lethal hits. Same with WNC K. If you dodge a vertical and connect with the kick and they mashed out a followup hit, you just get CH dmg.
Click to expand...

Yeah, getting counterhits instead of landing something as a whiff is a trend amongst most of her LHs. I tend to find that happens to me even with 6(A+B).

ZeroEffect317 said:
Her LHs and also, imo, her Soul Charge buffs aren't very abuseable like a lot of characters, but rather, they give you a little extra punch for playing normally.
Click to expand...

Look at you, seeing the future. I have a list of things to ramble about, discussing her soul charge was next.

I agree though, it's -- underwhelming is not the right word, but it doesn't enhance her beyond just damage increases. Her mixups are all exactly the same, and there is nothing new you have to look out for. Unlike a lot of other characters, she doesn't become LOADED with guard breaks on every hit. You generally have to get a few hits in to get a guard break going. So really, she's just the same character, with more damage, and is just as punishable on those options as always.

If her charge lasted longer than others, then that would be fine, but it burns out quick, especially if you pushed them out instead of knocked them down with the activation. I mean, if you push them out with the blast, her soul charge is mostly moot depending on the character. Sort of sucks.

Now that people know the strings, I find the worth of this to be very minimal unless they are cornered. Her super is a fine alternative, but since it doesn't do the best damage as far supers go and resets her all the way to full screen, it's not the best move for her kit either. Sort of a crapshoot when it comes to meter options.

ZeroEffect317 said:
This is showing the inconsistencies with her Wind Fury auto-parry. There's frames during the spin where she can be hit before the 2nd parry activates.
Click to expand...

You have no idea how much it irks me that she has a detrimental aGI. It would be better if it just low profiled. I've lost matches over that crap. TIme to practice that frame perfect cancel -- you know, cause hitting with the aGI wasn't enough.

Man... she has 0 options which can hit the opponent after the twirl. It just seems like an oversight.
 
I'm legitimately surprised why it doesn't just low profile. It would complete the set: Dodge high, dodge low, dodge vertical. Granted none of them work well, but at least the design would make sense. This one kind of just is a random addition.
 
does talim have any tech traps? I've noticed I've gotten a couple by accident, but I don't know how much of that is a true tech trap, vs luck / weird hit boxes.
 
Fuzzieviking said:
does talim have any tech traps? I've noticed I've gotten a couple by accident, but I don't know how much of that is a true tech trap, vs luck / weird hit boxes.
Click to expand...
The only ones I've seen that hit regardless of what way the opponent techs are running up and throwing them and her CE. Both require some timing except for WNC A+G~BT K~CE, which is immediate.
 
2a+b tech traps after 22_88b:b. Ch 6bb into a+b does too. That’s all I’ve found that are reliable. Her hitboxes are tiny.

You can WNS A I’m sure, but it is too slow in many cases.
 
Her CE tech traps off damn near everything, but the timing is different for certain knockdowns. 1A tech traps off 22B:B all but left I believe. Cannon tech traps after Ch 6BB, but that brings up the real issue. The main thing with Talim's tech traps is that most of them either don't hit grounded, or don't catch all sides.
 
D_Matt_Ma said:
I'm legitimately surprised why it doesn't just low profile. It would complete the set: Dodge high, dodge low, dodge vertical. Granted none of them work well, but at least the design would make sense. This one kind of just is a random addition.
Click to expand...
Because I think the intent was to give her a defensive option vs Mid Horizontals since those beat all her stance transitions normally. I'd much rather her just keep the twirl and instead of having to parry TWO attacks, just pull them in after one like a regular aGI.
 
Can someone explain what's going on here? I'm tempted to say it's a bug or something.


Talim's FC 3BB 2nd hit on CH is supposed to give this sort of wobbly stun you can combo after with WNS A+B or WNC stuff. But clearly you can see in the video that sometimes I get the full WNC AB and sometimes they can block or are too far away. And then sometimes they just fall over and nothing connects.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Can someone explain what's going on here? I'm tempted to say it's a bug or something.


Talim's FC 3BB 2nd hit on CH is supposed to give this sort of wobbly stun you can combo after with WNS A+B or WNC stuff. But clearly you can see in the video that sometimes I get the full WNC AB and sometimes they can block or are too far away. And then sometimes they just fall over and nothing connects.
Click to expand...

In the instances where she falls over, you are only hitting with the 3rd hit of the full 3BB combo, which hits 3 times. You can see that it only does 6 damage in those instances. The second hit of 3BB seems to be the one which on counter induces the comboable stun.
 
Last edited:
Skiegh said:
In the instances where she falls over, you are only hitting with the 3rd hit of the full 3BB combo, which hits 3 times. You can see that it only does 6 damage in those instances. The second hit of 3BB seems to be the one which on counter induces the comboable stun.
Click to expand...
There's clearly other times where it's 12 and 16 too. When it says 12 dmg, I get the full WNC AB followup. When it says 16 dmg, they can block the third hit of WNC AB. The times it says 12, I'm only hitting with the third part as well.
 
Hi, i’ve noticed that since a moment a get very frustrated by it. My conclusion about that was it is entented by the dev cause they don’t want that CH WNF A being his best starter combo for garanted her SC WNC ABB or SC WNC AKAA
Nothing official but it seems the most logic reason to translate it (and that really makes me angry)
It connect if closed to Wall and edge on some angle that is good cause it prevent that dirty and unfair pushback but forget it on middle of the ring
Sorry for my English i’m French
 
Last edited:
Freakysound said:
Hi, i’ve noticed that since a moment a get very frustrated by it. My conclusion about that was it is entented by the dev cause they don’t want that CH WNF A being his best starter combo for garanted her SC WNC ABB or SC WNC AKAA
Nothing official but it seems the most logic reason to translate it (and that really makes me angry)
It connect if closed to Wall and edge on some angle that is good cause it prevent that dirty and unfair pushback but forget it on middle of the ring
Sorry for my English i’m French
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you can still do CH WNF A~RCC AABA2_8 into WNC stuff from SC. Or am I wrong? Even so, the damage scaling on CH WNF A is HUGE. Like, doing CH WNF A~RCC AAB(B)~WNF BB is only like 55 dmg.
 
I
ZeroEffect317 said:
I'm pretty sure you can still do CH WNF A~RCC AABA2_8 into WNC stuff from SC. Or am I wrong? Even so, the damage scaling on CH WNF A is HUGE. Like, doing CH WNF A~RCC AAB(B)~WNF BB is only like 55 dmg.
Click to expand...
I know the damage scaling is huge sadly but it could extend some extra garanted damages in a closed end round
In other way SC WNC ABB is a strong long range RO by himself and even more if you SC 66 AAAB after cause it jail in the air and RO behind small wall (works too with 236B, WNF K, FC 2A+B and WNS (K) juggle and all LH that lunch in the air)

I really hope this pushback on CH WNF A is a bug and gonna be patch but honestly I don’t think
I forget for the RCC i’ll Test it as soon as possible. If it works damned trust me CH WNF A in SC will give tons of tears and salt from others. Crossed fingers
 
Last edited:
ZeroEffect317 said:
There's clearly other times where it's 12 and 16 too. When it says 12 dmg, I get the full WNC AB followup. When it says 16 dmg, they can block the third hit of WNC AB. The times it says 12, I'm only hitting with the third part as well.
Click to expand...

Did the research myself and I think I have the answer, though I admit I don't know the details of 3D game hitbox design, but first the videos which have properly measured distances...


To summarize, it would seem that the first active hitbox (low to the ground) of the 3rd hit of the FC 3BB combo hits for 6 damage and induces a stun which isn't like the rest, and results in a knockdown. The next hitbox for the move is when the move is moving upward, which does 12 damage and induces the same stun property that is present on the 2nd hit of the FC 3BB string (the one you usually hit with). However, since this hit is occuring later, and you are further along in the move, you are closer to the WNC cancel window and thus, can do a WNC AB followup and have it connect because the stun is lasting long enough due to becoming active later.

The joy of hitbox design. Seems 3D games have the same interesting lingering properties as 2D games. Hope this helps answer your question. If you have any other questions, lemme know, I do love lab work.

Quick version: FC 3BB has 3 hits, the third hit induces a different stun depending on which frame it hits on, the first is 6 damage and knockdown, the later is 12 damage and proper stun. Since it hits meaty, you can do a WNC AB follow-up.
 
Skiegh said:
Did the research myself and I think I have the answer, though I admit I don't know the details of 3D game hitbox design, but first the videos which have properly measured distances...


To summarize, it would seem that the first active hitbox (low to the ground) of the 3rd hit of the FC 3BB combo hits for 6 damage and induces a stun which isn't like the rest, and results in a knockdown. The next hitbox for the move is when the move is moving upward, which does 12 damage and induces the same stun property that is present on the 2nd hit of the FC 3BB string (the one you usually hit with). However, since this hit is occuring later, and you are further along in the move, you are closer to the WNC cancel window and thus, can do a WNC AB followup and have it connect because the stun is lasting long enough due to becoming active later.

The joy of hitbox design. Seems 3D games have the same interesting lingering properties as 2D games. Hope this helps answer your question. If you have any other questions, lemme know, I do love lab work.

Quick version: FC 3BB has 3 hits, the third hit induces a different stun depending on which frame it hits on, the first is 6 damage and knockdown, the later is 12 damage and proper stun. Since it hits meaty, you can do a WNC AB follow-up.
Click to expand...
Even if all of this is true, why program the knockdown at all? I can't imagine that's intentional if it's not consistent with the 3rd hit connecting by itself
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back