1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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uhh, sc2 hellsweep was pretty easy to see, so i dont see a real basis for comparision amongst them. If anything sig should be at least high mid, simply due to his cf game.

And why the hell does everyone think yoshi was mid in 2? It was top tier for sure in 2. Did the people who posted that even play 2 at a high level?
 
Yay tier listing!

Top: Akuma, Justice, Rugal, Cinder, Amakusa, Shang Tsung, Ivan Ooze
Mid: Ryu, Sol, Kyo, Jago, Haohmaru, Liu Kang, Megazord
Bottom: Algol Amy Astaroth Cassandra Cervantes Ivy Kilik Hilde Lizardman Maxi Mitsurugi Nightmare Raphael Rock Seong Mi-na Setsuka Siegfried Sophitia Taki Talim Tira Voldo Xianghua Yoshimitsu Yun-seong Zasalamel

I mean, seriously. Is there any debate?
 
Psh... you forgot about the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers nemesis, Ivan Ooze! He is the best fighting game character in any game he is in!


(Sorry for feeding the Off topic ness...)
 
Rico said:
Sorry TribaL, I just tested definitively and Yoshi's CH 2a:b JF stun is unshakable. The easy way to tell is to set the compy to Second Action Guard All and do the move. If the compy remains standing after the stun, it's shakeable, if they fall to the ground before they get up and guard, it's not.


Oh, and RedDjinn, just because you're right doesn't mean you're not a prick :p
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Well guess i'm a prick then.... either way I was just tired of this guy always telling me I'm wrong in a thread somewhere... Also this is a tier discussion thread you should probably leave your emotions at the house... If I hurt anyones poor little feelings I apologize but again this is a forum so take it as you will....
 
Sorry Cha Cha, I really don't like how people believe tiers = character worth. I do believe it's important in terms of tourney discussion but considering how "early" it is tiers seem pretty malleable to me. ::shrug:: So long as this doesn't turn into Chun vs Chun I think we'll be okay tho.

In terms of your listing I am surprised that Siegfried is as high as he is. What's your logic? I have no high-level experience so don't take that the wrong way, I'm just curious.
 
Syrpiektre said:
So long as this doesn't turn into Chun vs Chun I think we'll be okay tho....
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O god a bracket full of Sophies, Mitsus, and Amys

At that point I'll go back to VF.

Here's hoping the game proves to be much more balanced than in the past.
 
Rico said:
Sorry TribaL, I just tested definitively and Yoshi's CH 2a:b JF stun is unshakable. The easy way to tell is to set the compy to Second Action Guard All and do the move. If the compy remains standing after the stun, it's shakeable, if they fall to the ground before they get up and guard, it's not.


Oh, and RedDjinn, just because you're right doesn't mean you're not a prick :p
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It's easier if you leave the battle log "on", do the stun and check if the log says "Stun" or "Recoverable Stun".
 
Rekano said:
A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock
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Way off with Maxi there. Lower then the Apprentice? Same tier as Rock? Hes not exactly crapping out damage like the top tier but he is manageable.
 
Syrpiektre said:
Yay tier listing!

Top: Akuma, Justice, Rugal, Cinder, Amakusa, Shang Tsung, Ivan Ooze
Mid: Ryu, Sol, Kyo, Jago, Haohmaru, Liu Kang, Megazord
Bottom: Algol Amy Astaroth Cassandra Cervantes Ivy Kilik Hilde Lizardman Maxi Mitsurugi Nightmare Raphael Rock Seong Mi-na Setsuka Siegfried Sophitia Taki Talim Tira Voldo Xianghua Yoshimitsu Yun-seong Zasalamel

I mean, seriously. Is there any debate?
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Why aren't Ken and Chun-Li top tier?
 
I have played a few players who "main" Algol. Initially he has shock value on his side. But I found his bubble traps easy to counter with characters above him, steppable at mid-close range and overall predictable after seeing his stuff over and over. His damage is good on some ways, but the scaling on his combo damage is appauling...to me at least. Sophie seemed to have an easy time stab punishing just about everything close range (even GC).

I of course leave his placement open to debate, he very well could be better than I give him credit for, but I am simply looking to be disproved.

Anyone rolling to a tournament with him soon? Sophie vs Algol $$ match with tier implecations attached, anyone?

cha cha
 
Legendria said:
Excuse me, Yoshi's wakeup game is very much there. It's not as solid as Mitsurugi's, but by the time they catch your mix-up, he does so much damage the round is practically over.

MED A or B, INT A or B if at distance and you expect crouch, CR KKK buffer 14 A to sidestep and keep crouch.

Basically, if you connect with 3A B aB+K 66B and choose correctly whether to hold into INT or move forward to press with MED mixup, or use 6A+K (hold) 4 then correctly choose between 3AB or throw , the round is over.

Literally.

God tier plz.
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That's one option. And it's beatable. I won't say that Yoshi isn't top (he certainly is up there). But there's a lot more to Yoshi that makes him strong than what you've posted there.


As for the tiers.

We really should just discuss each character's strengths and weaknesses in depth rather than throw up blanket lists with little information. Saying Cass, Sophie and Amy are top tier without a strong explanation (other than, they're safe, or canned strings) doesn't really give us a good indication that these guys are at the top, or bottom.

Take Hilde for example; she's arguably as safe as Amy when it comes to her strings. She has advantage on hit or block on nearly all her charged attacks. She has an 180 damage unblockable, a 100 damage command throw against the wall. 70 damage combos. Impressive RO game. Safe? Check. Damage? Check. Why isn't she top tier?

It's currently argued that her B game is awful. She has no tracking on any of her B attacks. She's ferociously linear, and lacks good setups into her charge game. She has trouble breaking pressure games. And she's a little on the slow side. She also has a weak oki game. Her B game requires mid-range, her A requires a close/mid game. Her BB on block will eat a free launcher.

It's not so much that she's gimmicky with her charged attacks. But she requires an enormous effort to pull off a successful win. The fact that she's has to use nearly her entire move list to pull off a successful game (compared to other characters) suggests she's in the lower bracket. She can win, and she can compete, but not quite as easy as others.

More play is needed to see where Hilde can go. There's a lot of great players pioneering strategies and combos (many of which require close to JF timing). But right now, she feels a little on the weak end.
 
Windstar, if you could improve Hilde, how would you do it?

I personally think the damage on the charges is a bit lower than expected and her verticals could have slighty more tracking. Just as an example of how painful her verticals can be, with 1B you will miss a target if the lance hits between the rival's legs. That happens quite often against Maxi, Astaroth and Rock.
I don't think there's any other move that suffers from this "feature".
 
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