[ARCHIVE] Raph vs the World: Matchup Thread

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Fendante said:
even Prep K can beat it lol.
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i know prep K on hit can beat it unfortunately having prep K blocked means strong punishment :/

P.S: i know asta 66KBE beats all, but asta has some weakness aeon doesn t have.....for example lack of punishers and having to rely on unsafe things like 6K....aeon version is less effective yet its enough to change the matchup in his favor.

Maybe i lack some info on anti aeon but if aeon has:
-a good antiprep tool
-more damage
-weird hitbox to avoid pokes
-strong crouching game
-one of the best RO game

How can it be 5:5?
If there is something raph has that aeon suffers it would be really useful to know.
 
darkfender said:
i know prep K on hit can beat it unfortunately having prep K blocked means strong punishment :/

P.S: i know asta 66KBE beats all, but asta has some weakness aeon doesn t have.....for example lack of punishers and having to rely on unsafe things like 6K....aeon version is less effective yet its enough to change the matchup in his favor.

Maybe i lack some info on anti aeon but if aeon has:
-a good antiprep tool
-more damage
-weird hitbox to avoid pokes
-strong crouching game
-one of the best RO game

How can it be 5:5?
If there is something raph has that aeon suffers it would be really useful to know.
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Where did this talk about Aeon came from? Do you play a decent one occasionally now? Is that why you're so angry?

Raphael fares better against Aeon than most of the cast actually I'll put that up to 7:3 in Raph's favor. And I am a Liz main and Raph secondary. You just probably know nothing of the Aeon matchup like 99% of the world.

Stop sidestepping and start block/whiff punishing. You'll see how sad the Lizard will be.
Raphael can punish 66A. Do you know what that means for a Aeon player that's any decent?
 
i am not angry...

Well i really hate characters that despite all problem caused in past calibur games retained weird hitbox in scV....

But i don t think aeon is somehow OP.
I just think its not an easy matchup
One of friends i play with use him since scIV its true that i know what i can punish, but its also true playing against an opponent that knows raph very well will obviously cause him to play a poking game outdamaging the poor raph :S.

Aside 66A any other thing i should know?
In particular how do you rate his guard damage?
 
If your gauge starts going down at a right rate that is alarming, PROBABLY that's a sign you could more proactively attempt total evasions of what he's doing. Otherwise, it's more of the same tips, vs. hitbox weirdness or whatever offense:
dare him to actually be threatening, and you'll find he mostly isn't.
Don't make unnecessary movements. Spy his actual realistic hope for opening you up, and play him there, because he won't do it very well. You don't go sideways around when there's a drunk guarding the front door with the keys in his lecherous hands.

Situation:
You do BBB it hits. (By matchup), what do you do? Against back turn what do you do?
In particular, your opponent is Mitsu.
I like how in this situation you can avoid offense for quite a while thanks to the spacing, but I don't like how afraid I am to get anything of mine anticipated and equip Mitsu with those + frames for Mitsu bs. I certainly don't have enough to work with for straight mixups, so how do you proceed?
Isn't it weak to tempt the step , just to hope for a 22A interrupt, when I've got a hit I'm working with? Still best thing I ever came up with. Thank the gods I don't see 4B ever being a surprise.
 
You'll never catch mitsu's 22B with your typical raph vertical due to the TS. A few of his verticals have a wide enough hit box, but the ones you rely on for damage 22B, 3B, 33KB will consistently fail.
 
youngfox said:
its all gd reptile, hopefully we can play another time. btw how was the Montreal tourney? did u rep raph at all or just aeon?
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Well if you didn't know I took first so I'd say it went rather well. But about Raph no unfortunately I used only Aeon all the way for many reasons.

I did use Raph a billion times in casuals and it was going really good. And if it can make you feel better I had to hold back really hard to not use him in tournament matches. I only did so not because I have no faith in Raph, but cause I know my Aeon's on a different level.

I need to use Raphael on my next tourney and will give it a try at least.
 
congrats reptile. i gotta watch the archive cuz the sites i visited had weird listings for top 4. i understand having a character that just fits your style better so no hate on the aeon rep.
 
so i was workin on some mitsu MU knowledge from the string defense guide and i found a quick counter to 1BB. Some here thought it shut down prep and SE, so i was pleased when i found out that if u hold 2 immediately after entering prep that you can make it whiff. it can then be punished by SEB also you can do prep 4 to make it whiff and punish with prep kBE. just a lil quirk i thought id share. also thank you so much Heaton for that guide , its been a huge help
 
fc1BB is range dependant as always have been...at tip is not a threat to preps.

i find it frustrating when used on wake or on a random crouch as the damage on CH is enough to justify a gamble.....
Also its hit confirmable making difficult to punish it properly.
 
What i'm confused is.. is mitsus ? FC 1BB a NC at far range and not a combo at close range ? If he does it while I whiff a high, I have no trouble blocking the 2nd hit (such as from ducking my 6BB).

If I don't use a move that is advancing so i'm not up close when FC 1B hits, I eat the 2nd hit a lot.
 
afaik its not NC...
As some of raph moves is NC on some characters only and only on some situations...against astas for example tends to be NC almost everytime on leixia its the opposite.

Also i never prep against mitsu because risk reward is such that i cannot afford it.
If mitsu guess correctly once you probably lost the round.

3B infact can easily deal with prep also they can 22B against SE...

All i try against mitsu is poke and punish... :| 22B will prevent any vertical attempt so i try to be evasive and not commit ANY mistake.
A blocked 2KB also can turn the tide of the match.....but you lose really lot of potential tech traps due to that horrible FC1BB .-.

Good thing is that mitsu suffers step as raph if he try the poking game....

Also if you expect 4B (6BB punishable sometimes) 236B is quite good because the other option they will try is 22B and you 'll get on mitsu's back unharmed....(at frame disadvantage though if he tries B+K).

I lose when they casually throw a FC1BB and it connects :|
 
1. I was just testing Mitsu's FC 1BB and it appears to NC when raph is at anything other than point blank. If i'm point blank i can block the second hit. So you're telling me mitsu also benefits against larger characters and it would not NC against smaller characters?

2. 3B is annoying because it's no longer -16 at anything other than close range. This means that you're reduced to "punishing" it with 6BB (or expecting a 3B BE). Makes me wonder why raph's BB is not i15, seeing as how it is almost always inferior to 3B/3(B).

3.Mitsu would be more likely to throw out 4B in a carefully spaced situation, so that if you recognize that distance, and throw a 236B (and the mitsu player out yomi's you and throws a 22B), mitsu's weapon arc will actually still hit raph in the back. The distance gained by 236B can only be an option-select against both 4B and 22B if the whole exchange happens at close range.
 
wuht i was only referring to when raph enters prep. Delaying SE will make FC1bb whiff and mitsu FC1bb only combos on counter hit. I probably shouldnt post so early in the mourning anymore since those posts tend to not make sense when i reread em. Sry about that guys lol
 
WuHT said:
1. I was just testing Mitsu's FC 1BB and it appears to NC when raph is at anything other than point blank. If i'm point blank i can block the second hit. So you're telling me mitsu also benefits against larger characters and it would not NC against smaller characters?

2. 3B is annoying because it's no longer -16 at anything other than close range. This means that you're reduced to "punishing" it with 6BB (or expecting a 3B BE). Makes me wonder why raph's BB is not i15, seeing as how it is almost always inferior to 3B/3(B).

3.Mitsu would be more likely to throw out 4B in a carefully spaced situation, so that if you recognize that distance, and throw a 236B (and the mitsu player out yomi's you and throws a 22B), mitsu's weapon arc will actually still hit raph in the back. The distance gained by 236B can only be an option-select against both 4B and 22B if the whole exchange happens at close range.
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1) i think i read something like that in mitsu's section

3) people i faced tends to use 4B more at close range because (at least mine) raph is not very effective at mid range in the matchup and pokes works better to avoid 2A/2K....if its more ranged its easier for me to deal with mostly because i am quite careful at that distance (also i turtle a lot).
But the distance at wich mitsu 22B whiffs along 236B is quite long differently from scIV.
At least it works at close and mid distance.
 
Since we're talking about Mitsurugi FC 1BB, and I feel the need to self-promote:

String Defense Guide said:
If you block the first hit, you can punish the second hit with 44A+B.
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And remember that most "Prep Killers" rarely live up to that name consistently because of different spacings, and something that kills Prep entirely at close range might earn them a Prep k(BE) to the face at mid-range. Make sure to test the fuck out of something in Training mode if you think it does kill Prep completely - chances are there's still something you can do.
 
Heaton said:
And remember that most "Prep Killers" rarely live up to that name consistently because of different spacings, and something that kills Prep entirely at close range might earn them a Prep k(BE) to the face at mid-range. Make sure to test the fuck out of something in Training mode if you think it does kill Prep completely - chances are there's still something you can do.
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Agreed. Prep Kill shuold be something like 2A against nightmare's grim stride as a hard counter.
If prep4 can aGI or spacing and properly defeat it, then it is still a mind game (risk/reward may not be there though).

Anyways, what is a good option after getting hit by pat's 1K? Seems that 6BBB can beat pat's 3B (stops TCing), pat's BB, pat's 236B (stops TCing), 66B (doesn't TC in time or doesnt' TC at all). I'm not familiar with pat's solid TC though.

Obviously it'll lose to 2A, AA and 3A seems to TC pretty good, and pat's 2K actually TC (but has 0 tracking).

Can people with pat experience tell me what their most threatening move is after landing a 1K ?
 
I'm looking for some solid information against Voldo. I'm going to another tournament next week, and I'm sure that Esom's gonna be there. Fendante had given me a bit of advice about using TJ's and TS's against him. Is there more that I should know? Keep in mind I have next to no knowledge of the match up, and I've always had problems with Voldo since SC4 (where I started), so extremely obvious info helps too.
 
I've been having trouble running any sort of Prep game against Pyrrha. Her 3A is a TC Horizontal Mid that seems to shut down the whole stance, at least at close range. It goes right under PrepA and PrepB, PrepK is too slow to beat it, and Prep4 can't parry it. The only option I seem to have is PrepA+B at a distance, but I'm sure that can end up being very predictable anyway. So, is there any reliable way to run a Prep game against her, or am I better off learning new options vs. Pyrrha?

BTW, I'm glad to know that 4A can beat the second hit of 66B BE. That move is very frustrating!
 
You're probably going to want to stay away from Prep on block, and stick to using Prep as a punisher. If you get a 3(B) or a 6B(B) on hit, Prep K is virtually i11 or i10 (because of the positive frames) and should beat her 3A. If you do this enough times, it should deter her from trying to punish Prep, leading to more options when she hesitates. Try to keep safe until she opens herself up.
 
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