Astaroth Q&A/Discussion Thread

[JAGTHEGEMINI]

Well thank you. I must admit I am not that active anymore on 8wayrun like I used to but that´s because there is not much to talk about.
I have to admit that I almost stopped playing SCV too, but not because the game is bad or I am bored of it but for other reasons. I liked Itazan´s Asta for some reasons... The last one that surprised me.

 

[Foxbot]

Meechrox here.

Players moving away from Asta is obviously a complex issue, but here's my personal take on the matter.
After playing Asta for so long, I must say that Asta's more obvious weaknesses (slowness, poor sidesteps, high risk factors, meter builds up slowly, etc) no longer bother me. However, there are two things that still kinda bother me as an Asta player:

1) Lack of a good meterless punishing move: tournament-style gameplay is typically poke-and-punish heavy. Take a look at the characters that commonly end up in the top 3 spots of major tournaments; those characters are all better at punishing, especially *meterless* punishing, than Asta. Obviously SCV in general is more forgiving than Tekken series when it comes to errors getting punished, but this factor is so crucial in tournament play because Asta cannot put fear in opponent's mind by defense like other characters can. You may argue that Asta has the same weakness in SC4, but SCV's JG system has made this weakness a lot worse for SC5 Asta. More on this later. There are so many times that I wish 66B is slightly better.

2) JG system: remember, at this point, players have figured out most things regarding competitive gameplay already, so players have been almost "exploiting" the JG system. Unfortunately, Asta does NOT really benefit from the JG system as much as other characters. Asta gets a 4B/66B or a mixup after most successful JGs, whereas other characters get a launcher/KD move on JG Asta's key moves (for example, bullrush!). Asta's slowness means that one big set of his key moves are all in the same speed range (i18 ~ i20), so pretty easy to JG. I feel like if you take SCV and remove JG all together, Asta would definitely go up on the tier list. I believe most top players agree that the JG system has too high of a reward based on the risk, especially vs Asta.

I still think Asta is a good character, but these 2 weaknesses cannot be overcome, whereas people have figured out how to overcome other characters; weaknesses. Even Itazan wins by pure mental game and very little technical aspects (although he is really good at CE pushing ducked throws)

 

[Monster_Planet]

Fox, gotta' agree on both points big time. Aside from the unsafe, but profitable 66ab, he's got to gamble or settle for heavy punishes.

I think he's tough to play (one of the hardest v. good players), but that point about mental play is GIANT w asta., and yeah, he gets scary when you start winning the mind games and low grabs. Can't liet, asta does give me prostate cancer educing levels of stress when I'm battling high end tourny players.

 

[Monster_Planet]

I wanted to share some stuff that people really don't do (or I haven't seen very often) that tend to cause other players to lock-up. It might help newer players trying to get better or think he's "slow".

I used to think / was bad, because i just read it was, but it's hugely tasty when used during some wake-ups or just at neutral. You virtually won the mind game if you catch a random one (lol). People always want to attack after (+/+, etc due to grabs low recovery frames), and if they get wise, they lock up again, which is good for you. Being airbourne is great for lowering risk for potential combos too.

Run up low grab. It's somewhat punishable, but they usually won't.

I mentioned backstep . Some will start to dodge, but at mid-long range it's hard to punish after step. Then you start 'ing or grabbing. Mixing this with backstep can also be annoying and effective.

Step into on point-blank Oki (usually hits in every direction) can be pretty risky, but hit's a lot and reminds them you're more than just mids and grabs.

Also, I don't see enough + and responsive low-grab attempts from lows and I can't imagine why. Characters like Yoshi, raph and ezio are strong at this, but it's still a net loss when they get hit a couple times with some hard low grabs from those attempts.

Watching for patterns is the biggest deal I see work on great players. Seldom do I see players so focused on their own game plan actually branch out and try to change their patterns mid game, but these patterns are big signals for Asta--I'd go as far as to say that's his only game at that level. You could say the same for any character and set-ups, but we all know how binary fatass can be. Lowering the risk for attempts is more important for asta than just about anyone else. 'One reason from a jerky neutral game can be so rewarding, and it's his main JG fighter.

 

[Not a Peacock]

Can Asta's air grab beat out all of Algol's QI jump-ins?