Balance Patch Discussion

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Astaroth 66K BE is a very risky move, it's not like he can throw it out any moment and win for free.
The opponent can easily block and JG or QS the second hit and punish with launcher + combo or create traps to make Astaroth go revenge and punish it afterwise, for example poking using B instead of BB with certain characters (O.Pyrrha, Pyrrha, Natsu ecc...).

At the moment the only things that I hope will be patched in the future are:

- Viola backthrow
- Mitsurugi 4B (no more tracking)
- Patroklos A+B
The lenght of the GI window is waaaaaay too long, so long that it works even after the green light vanishes lol.
The number of frames it should be active shouldn't be more than 20 imho.
 
Asodimazze said:
Astaroth 66K BE is a very risky move, it's not like he can throw it out any moment and win for free.
The opponent can easily block and JG or QS the second hit and punish with launcher + combo or create traps to make Astaroth go revenge and punish it afterwise, for example poking using B instead of BB with certain characters (O.Pyrrha, Pyrrha, Natsu ecc...).

At the moment the only things that I hope will be patched in the future are:

- Viola backthrow
- Mitsurugi 4B (no more tracking)
- Patroklos A+B
The lenght of the GI window is waaaaaay too long, so long that it works even after the green light vanishes lol.
The number of frames it should be active shouldn't be more than 20 imho.
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No like the problem I think everyone else is saying about Astaroth's 66K BE is the amount of damage he gets off of it if u are hit with it, like over 140+ i think. Most people simply just want his damage lowered down a bit after he hits u with this setup.
 
if you mean 66K~BE 22B~BE, 28B+G ONLY on large characters then i think 140 is reasonable for 30 life and 1 bar on such a risky move.

Many characters get 100 damage for half a bar with a safe move.
 
Another thing that in my opinion has always being wrong, and is that faster Characters benefit more from JG than the slower Chars, and since the faster chars have has much power as the slower chars, i dont see the balance there, but thats just me thinking.

Also what Malek said, i always was against, giving loosers a way too win, the good all days, of soul calibur are gone, this feels worse than tekken, my opinion thou.
 
Another, sorry too 2ble post, I think nightmare is perfect, his unsafe on almost everything he has, and has no good lows and pokes, BUT, im against a 171 wall combo that starts in the middle of the ring, like i said i think the damage output should be lower, this is worse than tekken right now.
 
Omega said:
Another thing that in my opinion has always being wrong, and is that faster Characters benefit more from JG than the slower Chars, and since the faster chars have has much power as the slower chars, i dont see the balance there, but thats just me thinking.

Also what Malek said, i always was against, giving loosers a way too win, the good all days, of soul calibur are gone, this feels worse than tekken, my opinion thou.
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LOL, remember, before the game was out, we were calling this game Noob Calibur 5, it's simply noob friendly, that's why there are more "good players" nowadays.
GI was your specialty, everyone knows, but hey, no Norman, that's a big advantage that you don't deserve it just for being good at this game, so let's take that away, instead of that, you get JG, which of course it doesn't interrupt strings, and as you use a slow char, it will be really hard for you to get a launcher. For me it's the same as giving a free bar away to the loser of two rounds, it will benefit more the less skilled player overall.

So yeah, speaking of balance, we cannot forget this things, and Belial, I don't think this is for another thread, it fits well here, as well as stepping, I don't know most people opinions on backstep nerf, but it definitely benefited some chars more than others, now Patroklos went from top to god tier because now is easy for him to connect 66B for example, but again, I don't know everyone opinion on this, but it affected the balance, as some chars has better recovery frames from backstep than others in case someone hasn't noted it.
 
What the fuck is that, just cut that already, you wanna run salt over good old days - stfu and go away.

Im not interested in remaking SCV to fit everyone dreams. All I want to hear that a reasonable list of fixes to bullshit that is in the game currently so I can mail it to Namco and MAYBE it gets fixed.

Damage nerf suggestion already noted and I will pass that on, best as I can. The only reason Im not deleting this noobcaliburtekken shit you started is out of respect for names you earned. But any further offtopic would be deleted w/o any regard whos posting.
 
I don't really see how this game is noob friendly. sure they win among each other more easily, but the truly good players still stick out very clearly, and its actually harder for "noobs" to graduate from the noob crowd.

I shall first suggest changes for the characters I consider top tier... I'd add more when I remember more stuff.

Viola:

44A BE should not be hit-confirmable.

Mitsurugi:

4B pushout should be reduced. Should be easier to step and punish.

33K should have more whiff recovery.

Alpha-Patroklos:

44B+K BE. Either slow it down, or reduce the combo damage to 60ish (maybe by adding in more scaling).

Patroklos:

66B should be -13~16 or something. Let its safety be dependent on range... so people who use it for mixup put themselves at a higher risk.

11B should be more unsafe... like -16.

Saw arguments about 1K... its fine. Its -17 on block so I am okay.

I'm fine with pat being good the way he is, because the player actually has to be pretty skilled to get him to a level where he is consistent.

Pyrrah:

1K should be -16 on block.

66A should be -11 or -12.

The rest is okay. she needs the rest.

Cervantes:

Saw that some had issues with 4B BE... I think there is no need to nerf it. Maxou already said what I had in mind. Also, if you block 4B BE and throw, BT B+K will be punished with a back grab, and the throw can be broken. Risk-reward is actually more in the defender's favour. Cervantes needs it also because of his lackluster rushdown.

aB should be nerfed though. Damage is fine, and its very punishable... but it should be i12 or i13. Not i11.

He really needs the rest of his stuff.

Nightmare:

Perfectly okay... except wall combo damage. Omega's right.

Asta:

66K BE =( Keep it high, but not THAT high.

Omega:

Perfectly okay as a character. Please do not touch her. her damage really just comes from one move. As long as you play to the matchup she really has to work. She isn't well rounded.
 
ShenYuan said:
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Agree w/ pretty much everything here.

Would maybe suggest Pyrrha doesn't "need" 22K to be as it is... she gets 85 dmg for a move that crushes all verticals and high attacks... yeah you can duck on reaction but she also has the K cancel... but I don't think she's as bad as the top tier so maybe we can leave this for now
 
Belial said:
What the fuck is that, just cut that already, you wanna run salt over good old days - stfu and go away.

Im not interested in remaking SCV to fit everyone dreams. All I want to hear that a reasonable list of fixes to bullshit that is in the game currently so I can mail it to Namco and MAYBE it gets fixed.

Damage nerf suggestion already noted and I will pass that on, best as I can. The only reason Im not deleting this noobcaliburtekken shit you started is out of respect for names you earned. But any further offtopic would be deleted w/o any regard whos posting.
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I understand, let's keep the rules of this thread.
 
ShenYuan said:
I don't really see how this game is noob friendly. sure they win among each other more easily, but the truly good players still stick out very clearly, and its actually harder for "noobs" to graduate from the noob crowd.

I shall first suggest changes for the characters I consider top tier... I'd add more when I remember more stuff.

Viola:

44A BE should not be hit-confirmable.

Mitsurugi:

4B pushout should be reduced. Should be easier to step and punish.

33K should have more whiff recovery.

Alpha-Patroklos:

44B+K BE. Either slow it down, or reduce the combo damage to 60ish (maybe by adding in more scaling).

Patroklos:

66B should be -13~16 or something. Let its safety be dependent on range... so people who use it for mixup put themselves at a higher risk.

11B should be more unsafe... like -16.

Saw arguments about 1K... its fine. Its -17 on block so I am okay.

I'm fine with pat being good the way he is, because the player actually has to be pretty skilled to get him to a level where he is consistent.

Pyrrah:

1K should be -16 on block.

66A should be -11 or -12.

The rest is okay. she needs the rest.

Cervantes:

Saw that some had issues with 4B BE... I think there is no need to nerf it. Maxou already said what I had in mind. Also, if you block 4B BE and throw, BT B+K will be punished with a back grab, and the throw can be broken. Risk-reward is actually more in the defender's favour. Cervantes needs it also because of his lackluster rushdown.

aB should be nerfed though. Damage is fine, and its very punishable... but it should be i12 or i13. Not i11.

He really needs the rest of his stuff.

Nightmare:

Perfectly okay... except wall combo damage. Omega's right.

Asta:

66K BE =( Keep it high, but not THAT high.

Omega:

Perfectly okay as a character. Please do not touch her. her damage really just comes from one move. As long as you play to the matchup she really has to work. She isn't well rounded.
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i agree with your suggestion in particular with Pyrra 1k -15 >to -16 and 33k of Mitsu to safe on wiff/block
Concerning this game: imho the differenze between low and high level players its' again remarkable ( meter management, Jg etc are not so "Friendly "for noobs players i think )
P.s. are You shen-sama from france ? :-) if yes we did alot of nice matchs :-)
 
Zwei

8k/9k - change property to mid. Seriously. This is kinda ridiculous. There are a number of moves I can jump over with this move but it whiffs only because this property. It looks like it should hit mid. It won't break anything. This will actually help his defense (which is lacking because of a lack of quick moves, which I have no problem with). Its i19. Let him have this one.

The thing about Zwei is you can't give him any speed or he wil break the game. A fast, safe horizontal for him would screw everybody over. Too many traps from him. He'd be able to attack all day. So you can't speed up 3a,a or 6a or 66a or wrA or make them really safe in 3a and 6a's case.
 
redihokuto: No this is shen yuan from singapore. SCIV hilde / X player. I think we met in tournament.

In treating the characters, I think we have to make sure that the nerfs apply to stuff that exceeds their intended potential.... everyone must keep some bullshit... thats what i like about SCV. the matchups are more interesting and demanding because every character has some screwed up tool.
 
Lolo i thought i was going crazy but it seems is true his throw whiff recovery is faster, WOW where is the "justice" on that? stupid Patroklos LOL, and also agree with that stupid pushblock of Pyrrha's 3B, i never punish that since i thought i was on range and tried to punish that in a tourney, guess what.... i wasnt on range and got raped by her CE w punished me after i whiff.

about those Nightmare complains i just have to say, he is pretty unsafe, slow, have lack of a decent low, i mean his lows are maybe the shittiest in the game, and also his throw damage now is pathetic i mean just 40 and 45 damage and only one gives him a decent oki game thats pretty crappy, and i think he also have some pretty stupid things like his WS K being -16 on block and 0 (neutral) on hit and counterhit -.-.

i agree with Omega bout nerfing a bit his wall combos, as well as Astaroth wallcombos.

Algol, 41236 B and K should be easier to evade sideways
 
I'm not agree with the nerf of meter gain of 2K BE B. When you do a combo that the starter is a brave edge, the following move give meter . It's the same for 2K BE B . It just look like not fear because the last hit is a natural follow up of a brave edge that is specific thing of Mitsu.

When you hit with 44B+K BE of alpha, you gain meter with the following combos. When you hit with 66B BE of Natsu, you gain meter with the following combos. When you hit with 2K BE of Mitsu, you gain meter with the following natural combo. It seem normal for me.


Mitsurugi nerf to add :

66/33/99 K : less tracking.
 
Akire said:
I'm not agree with the nerf of meter gain of 2K BE B. When you do a combo that the starter is a brave edge, the following move give meter . It's the same for 2K BE B . It just look like not fear because the last hit is a natural follow up of a brave edge that is specific thing of Mitsu.

When you hit with 44B+K BE of alpha, you gain meter with the following combos. When you hit with 66B BE of Natsu, you gain meter with the following combos. When you hit with 2K BE of Mitsu, you gain meter with the following natural combo. It seem normal for me.


Mitsurugi nerf to add :

66/33/99 K : less tracking.
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Akire, i think the problem with Mitsu's 2K BE is the fact of being a hella fast invisible low w makes pretty huge damage and gives maybe one of the strongest okizeme options after that
 
Vlaster said:
Akire, i think the problem with Mitsu's 2K BE is the fact of being a hella fast invisible low w makes pretty huge damage and gives maybe one of the strongest okizeme options after that
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So I the problem is that, a nerf of gain meter will be not the solution.
 
yeah i agree, mitsu is stupidly good but 2kb is not the reason.

yes it's a good move but not actually as good as everyone is making out, he's got far better and stronger options like 4B, 1B, 6B8, 6B, 4A, 22A.

obviously dealing with the oki is hard but i think thats the core of the character and allowing you to get away from the mix up kinda defeats the point.

If anything he needs slight damage nerf on his pokes (between 2 and 5) and 4B, and maybe a few frames shaved off the really good stuff like 6B8 and 4B.
 
I don't think 2KB is the problem. Its always has been mitsu's defining point. It's what makes mitsu mitsu in SC.

The problem now, is his mid-range neutral game. The reverse mixup is stupid because of moves that grant easy access to fixed situations (33K in particular) and reversals that are beyond reason (4B). Not to mention the damage too. The problem isn't 2KB... its the accompanying stuff
 
let me add some of my "wishs" about ZWEI:
-give his 2A and 44A some range
-make 44B a little faster so it can be actually used(not too fast)
-give 66A the same property as NM Ag:A on airborne opponents to have some kind of wall combos
-make 3A BE hit-confirmable and delayable
-give EIN-less 6B+K B ground stun and make it a bit faster and less recovery frames
-make 4KB a bit safer(-14)
-remove the hitbox issue in 1K BE with some characters (e.g. Leixia)
EDIT:
-make 3B guaranteed on all characters after GI
 
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