Ban Hilde

[Scamp]

I'm confused. It's nice to say ban, ban, ban but how many people are willing to step up and do something about it?

What I mean is: Use Hilde yourself. Prove that she is as bad as you say. Don't point at someone else's play and expect that to be the proof. Start winning with her yourself and make your own arguments.


How can Hilde be such a problem if so few people use her? Do people enter tournaments and not try to win? If Hilde is so broken then use her and prove it. It needs to be shown that she is the best option for everyone and that the game becomes all about her and no one else. If only one person does well with a character, what kind of evidence is that? Ban the minority because no one else can be bothered to learn a character?

Once again, for simplicity. If Hilde is so broken then we really should see more of her than what we have now.

 

[Shenrei]

If they enforce that binding rule, it better be for Hilde only. Enforcing a global controller button rule because of just one character seems ludicrous. Take away single button binds, and say goodbye to 95% of the pad players here.

 

[Tiamat]

ya, hope you never meet or he's going to beat you up and take your lunch money!

in fact, ban or patch hilde or he might beat us ALL up!

I know kung fu yo. Can't touch this.


From vids I've been looking at I expected an average of about 50% RO from the combo starters that go into the RO combo (only using ceirnian's matches vs select players). So far I'm getting results where it usually DOES NOT RO them (because of walls, combo screw up, things like that). It's still a very small sample though, so I'll be looking through more matches and tallying as I go, just out of curiosity.

 

[tribaL]

does anybody know how other regions are dealing with Hilde? How well does she do in Japan, Korea, etc.?

no one really plays hilde in japan, the ones that do are terrible with her. i know i haven't played all the people in japan, but i've yet to play a really good hilde that knows what the hell they're doing.

on the flipside, i play hilde quite often. while a lot of players have a hard time against her, there are a few really good players who understand you just can't go in guns blazing. i played against one guy that was stepping almost everything i did with her, from charges to her regular moveset (her regular movelist sucks for tracking, period). if he wasn't stepping, he was turtling his ass off and there wasn't much i could do to break his guard. i know i probably don't play like ceir, but i know how to play hilde and charges by themselves only get you so far against good competition and you have to start resorting to her lesser moves.

i have to see these vids to see what people were getting hit with that's so different from what everyone else uses.

...

hmm, after watching those vids i'm somewhat confused because i don't play against people that fall for those same setups that ceir was doing. i'm certainly not suggesting that i can beat anyone but i just want to point some things out. i'm not going to say who did such and such and what time, i'm just going to make some overlying remarks.

i see a lot of all-around over-aggressiveness; this is something that i made a thread about. that whole "problem with sc..." thread that some people called garbage. one of my biggest complaints was that people are too aggressive and aren't defensive enough because being on offense gets results. hilde just happens to be one of those characters who will destroy you if you don't play defensively and i think it's good that she can. maybe it will make people think twice before going on a rampage of run-up, attack, rinse, repeat.

her fc c3bba move. i don't know many people who still get hit by the second hit into the last hit. if they block the first hit, they're blocking the second. i saw this hit more times than i'd ever expect to see hit in any match i play.

hilde is at a + frame advantage after all of her level 2 and 3 charges. why anyone would be attacking with a slow attack after blocking these doesn't make sense to me.

her c3a his ridiculous, i know this. it can auto gi so much it's stupid, it's mid, it ro's front, it goes into c2bb juggle, and it gives her frames on block; however there is no reason why after blocking c3a that a c3b should ever hit anyone, ever. i saw that in the vids and i'm sorry but there's no excuse for that. i haven't hit anyone with that setup since i started playing her. yea, she gets plus frames, but not that many. the same could be said after blocking a c2bb then having c3a hit. unless she's auto-gi'ing you, i don't see why this is hitting.

all of hilde's "better" options at the start of a round are all steppable. she can't charge in-between rounds, and her other ranged attacks blow for tracking.

after finishing a juggle with c2a, her c2bb tech catches. i know it's retarded, but it does.

 

[KingAce]

The future of SC4 sounds very lonely...and this was the game that was supposed to revive our community?
Sigh!

 

[D.I.N.O]

Hilde is not Ban material. SW doesnt belong in the game. Algol is beatable, but not "good for the game".

This message was brought to you by DeathIsNeverOver

 

[tribaL]

The future of SC4 sounds very lonely...and this was the game that was supposed to revive our community?
Sigh!

to be honest, if this kills the community that will prove just how shallow the community has gotten. it seems as though there are fewer people willing to put forth any time in actually learning this game.

 

[Alex.J]

With all these ban topics, it's always the people who use the character in question (JOP, Ciernian, Tiamat) or random scrubs/noobs (Tiamat) who are adament against banning. Anybody who witnesses the heinous gayness first hand is all about the ban. Everyone except Chacha who has warped opinions and Oofmatic, the guy who loved glitching and cheating people in sc3 with Lizardman and calling it fair.

If you think the game would be better if they patched Hilde, then why wait for it? What would you like for them to do with a patch? Change the ringout distance?, Lessen her damage output?, Both?

I say either ban Hilde's relaunch or lock all Hilde tourney matches in at one or two walled stages. There is no reason to ban a character, just fix the root problem. It's not Hilde, it's her damage/RO ability, so we should have a communal consensus to standardize tournaments with rules to maintain balance....NOW

Explain why no one in Norcal wants her banned then because I think we see the "heinous gayness" first hand more than most people. Also note that Norcal is doing better than it ever has in the amount of activity that we have.

 

[rashreflection]

Remember how I was insisting from the start that banning bonus characters was dumb and it would lead to more dumb bans, and people thought I was the dumb one?

Glad to see more people coming to their senses, at least.

Let me say something to address Aris and the rest of the high-level players:

Many great fighting games have practical 100% combos or even infinites. The mentality in those communities is "if you ever let yourself get hit, you deserve to die instantly". Calibur, with features like air control, trains people to believe the exact opposite, but both approaches are viable and can even mesh together in the same game.

Your complaint about Hilde making the game boring & limited is a common and understandable one. As an experienced 2-D player, though, I can tell you that Justin Wong does the exact same thing to EVERY SINGLE GAME HE TOUCHES. His extraordinary reaction time allows him to block a lot of mixups, punish whiffs that most people wouldn't catch, and use pokes & dragon punches to keep you from ever getting in. Should we ban Justin from playing in tournaments? Would you quit a game because Justin happens to play it?

Hell, this community went through this back in SC2's prime when RTD & Mick completely dominated with a turtle style very similar to Justin's. I'm surprised good players have hung around this long and still not gotten used to it. The reality is that in fighting games, even more so than in sports, defense wins championships.

Knowing this, what's a Calibur player to do? I, for one, have come to enjoy playing these kinds of matches; there is far more decision-making involved in zoning or closing the gap than in fighting up close, and decision-making is one of the main reasons I play these games. If this isn't your thing, then I would suggest learning Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter, as those are about the only fighting games that don't drastically limit your options at high level.

Just my .02,
Josh Ballard.

 

[thugish_pond]

The only thing I'll say about it is I think she shouldn't be able to do things like charge B but then break throws with another button that has a bind for B without losing her charge.

 

[tribaL]

The only thing I'll say about it is I think she shouldn't be able to do things like charge B but then break throws with another button that has a bind for B without losing her charge.

this i agree with 100%. i've always been against binding but never really cared to say anything because i never felt it was game-breaking. with hilde it's supposed to be a trade-off of either a charge or having that button readily available for whatever else you want to do (ie: breaking a throw), however, she definitely gains a significant advantage from button-binding that she normally wouldn't have.

see? that's a perfectly logical explanation for something that should be banned:

there's an issue, an explanation, an inherit unintended advantage, and a simple solution.

ahh, just like science.

 

[Ceirnian]

The only thing I'll say about it is I think she shouldn't be able to do things like charge B but then break throws with another button that has a bind for B without losing her charge.

She loses the charge when she breaks a throw, or even attempts to break a throw. Sometimes it goes all wrong and you lose both a charge and you still get thrown.

@Josh - Very good post. Your name seems extremely familiar, you post on dustloop and SRK if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Cynnik]

yeah, i would have to say that banning a character or characters is really not the answer but the way the game is right now it is not playable as is. A patch is definately necessary but if none comes out, then i think its gonna be like sc3 all over again where people will stop playing and lose intrest. I love the sc series so i hope this doesn't happen.

 

[ShenOu]

At this point I'd like to say this to you all.

I
Told
You
So.

Well, not really, but I think my point shines a little bit here.
So just suggesting, if you really really end up banning Hilde... at least start by banning BINDINGS with Hilde, not just the entire character.
After it proves that I've been right for the past 6 months. You all will see the light... and you will do my bidding.

My first order to my future minions would be to help me get laid.
That is all.

 

[Marginal]

Is it "Hill-deh" or "Hill-dee?" I never figured it out.

It's Hil-Duh. (You gotta watch more Bugs Bunny cartoons.)

 

[ShenYu]

Talim is my anti-Hilde.

I'm a little late to the party but... you're totally crazy. :P

 

[Belial]

Aris: Could you elaborate to why you have opted for forfeiting the game instead of banning one character. It just doesnt make sense to me.

Sorry me jumping to conclusions but to me it seems like you are frustrated from your loss and acting childish.

I could tell a lot more but I'm sure you already have considered everything I have to say.

 

[Hustle_Man_77]

Hilde is not Ban material. SW doesnt belong in the game. Algol is beatable, but not "good for the game".

This message was brought to you by DeathIsNeverOver

Please just STFU. 99% of the diehard SC fans don't like the SW characters unless they actually like the SW movies, but they realize that only Yoda is worthy of a ban, and even that isn't definite.

Technically Hilde wouldn't fit this game because nobody has had her RO potential in any SC game nor has any character's best moves been charged based. But let me guess, she's dressed in some medieval costume so you're all for her being there. Lawd have mercy

For the record, I hate her death combo, but I don't feel that her or the combo should be banned. I just play a different strategy against her

 

[Cynnik]

Button binding is for fucking scrubs... i cant believe this is still being allowed. This rule was implemented to suit newcomer pad scrubs and to expand the community as some dumbass expained it to me who is running this year's nationals. Back in the day you were not allowed to bind buttons and i cant believe this changed. The game was meant to be played with 4 buttons arcade style and none of that A+B or G+A or multiple A's/B's bullshit. I understand that newcomers or pad players will be turned off by this and make the community smaller in that respect but they need to understand that its an advantage to throw with 1 button or CF for that matter. If it was up to me, tourneys would be stick only and only 4 buttons used.

 

[The_Realyst]

Button binding is for fucking scrubs... i cant believe this is still being allowed. This rule was implemented to suit newcomer pad scrubs and to expand the community as some dumbass expained it to me who is running this year's nationals. Back in the day you were not allowed to bind buttons and i cant believe this changed. The game was meant to be played with 4 buttons arcade style and none of that A+B or G+A or multiple A's/B's bullshit. I understand that newcomers or pad players will be turned off by this and make the community smaller in that respect but they need to understand that its an advantage to throw with 1 button or CF for that matter. If it was up to me, tourneys would be stick only and only 4 buttons used.

QFT. This stuff isn't allowed in Japan and such. I really don't get why it's allowed here. But oh well. Not allowing button binding for Hilde players seems to be the best solution. It would fix the "problem" wouldn't it? This way Hilde doesn't get banned (not like she's going to be banned regardless) in anyway. You can let her on any stage with this. I think this option should be explored further.