BD Changes

Been workin hard with our bipolar princess in my time away. When I have a better connection I'll be posting up frame data and other finds. Stay tuned.
 
Yay Miko is back :)

Looking forward to it. Just ask if you want to have some of your finds recheckt or confirmed.


BTW: 7_8_9 K now has great TJ frames but seems to be unsafer.
 
Please do arnie. For now I can give you guys this.

So I found that JS 66K launches on CH during a stun now. Seems pretty useless since she doesn't have any stuns she can combo into it easily. But I did find this.

JS 4A+B 22B 66K W! 11K BT B+KBA+K GS 22B BF 66B (about 144)

The camera moves during the combo so be mindful.
 
I just tried it and it works wonderfully. The 66K is pretty easy to time, actually. For a bit less damage, but easier to do (since it doesn't require a mood change), you could also do:

JS 4A+B, 22B, 66K W! 6AB, BT B+KB ~105 damage

Now if only 4A+B were easier to connect with... =(

edit: A bit of playing around and I found a similar combo that starts with something a BIT more practical than 4A+B, though it does a bit less damage.

JS 3B W! 22B, 11K, BT B+KBA+K, GS 22B, BF 66B ~132 damage
(Without Gloomy shift) JS 3B W! 22B, 11K, BT B+KBA+K, JS 22B ~111 damage

For some reason I can't get the 11K to connect if I use 66K to wallsplat after the 22B.
 
Tira (JS)
8 - CFA
10 - 4KB, UD B
11 - BT B+KB
12 - 44AB
13 - 6AB
14 - 33_99AA (14.5), 22B (14.5.)
15 - 44AA, 44A2A, 66AA (15.5)
16 - WS B
17 - A+B, 44B
19 - 11_77B, 33_99B
20 - 2AB, 3B, 22A, 66B
23 - 2A+B, UD A
25 - 1A, 1B, 6B8, 11A
29 - WS A
34- 3A, 3K, 22K, 33K, UD K
N/A - AA, 2A, 4A, FC A, JUMP A, BB, 2B, 4B, 6B, FC B, K, 1K, 2K, 4K, 6K, FC K, WS K, JUMP K, 4A+B_[A+B], A+K, 4B+K, 11K, 44A, 44K_[K], 66K, 88K

Tira (GS)
8 - CFA
9 - 6BK (9.5)
10 - 4KB, UD B
11 - 4B:B:B, BF 66B, BT B+KB
12 - BF 44B
15 - BF 44A
16 - 6B, WS B
17 - A+B, 22B, 33B, 88B
19 - 22A, BF 66A, 11B
20 - 1B, 3B. 6B8, 44A, 66B
22- BF 66K
23 - 3A, BF 66K
25 - 1A, 2A+B, 11A
29 - 22K
34 - WS K, 33K, 66K, UD K
N/A - AA, 2A, 4A, 6A MSH A, FC A, JUMP A, BB, 2B, FC B, K, 1K, 2K, 3K, 3kA, 4K, 6K, FC K, JUMP K, A+K, 4A+B_[A+B], 4B+K, 11K, 44K, 444K, 88K

N/A - Moves that either do not affect the SG or will not break it.

Tira
i12 GS AA -, +4, +4
i12 44K
i13 JS AA -, +5, +5
i13 FC A
i13 JS K -, +2, +2
i13 GS K -, +2, +2
i14 GS 6A
i14 JS 6B8 -5, +2, +2
i14 GS 6B8 -3, +5, +5
i16 JS BB -, +4, +4
i16 GS BB -, +4, +4
i16 JS 6K -, 0, KND
i16 GS 6K -, +2, KND
i16 JS 66K -7, +2, LNC
i18 4A -14/15, -, -
i19 JS 6B -15, -3, -3
i19 GS 6B -7, +3, +3
i27 4KB -, KND, KND
JS 3A -10, +2, +2
GS 3A -9, +4, +4
JS 6A -16, -5, -1
JS 6AB -. +3, KND
JS 1B -12, -1, -1
GS 1B -10, +1, +1
JS 4B -17, -10, -10
GS 6bK -, -4, KND
WS B -13, STN, AT
1K -16, -4, -4
JS 3K -9, +4, +4
JS 2A+B -16/17, KND, KND
GS 2A+B -5, KND, LNC
11A -14/15, -2, -2
JS 22A -15, KND, KND
JS 44AA +2, KND, KND
JS 44A2A -, KND, KND
JS 44AB -17, -3, -3
GS 44A -17, KND, KND
GS 66A -6, +3, KND
GS 666A -3, +4, KND
GS 6666A -1, +6, KND
BF 66A +3, +10, KND
JS 22B -5, +5, STN
GS 33B -8, KND, KND
11B/44B -, +2, LNC
CH 11B/44B +12, LNC, LNC
JS 66B -12, LNC, LNC
GS 22B +6, KND , KND
JS 11K -13, +6, STN
GS 11K -10, +6, STN
JS 4A+B 66K W! 22B 11K BT B+KBA+K GS 22B BF 66B (140) bit more reliable
JS 4A+B 22B 66K W! 11K BT B+KBA+K GS 22B BF 66B (144) *posted this earlier
*Camera moves during both combos
GS 6A MSH A W! iWS B (114)
GS B+K maxes out at 70 dmg.
 
That must have been a shitload of work to do! Thx for these numbers.

Tiras JS AA is great now :)

EDIT: Could someone test A+G, W!, GS22B, GS BF 66B? It seems to be very inconsistent for some reasons.
 
I tested it and found that it only seems to be guaranteed at a certain angle. Looks like you have to be facing diagonal to the wall, slightly to Tira's right, kinda like this:

agthrowwallsplatcopy.gif


At least, that's the most consistent I've been able to get it. It doesn't seem to work on non-flat walls, like the curved walls in the Tower of Remembrance ~ Spiral stage, but I think that's the only stage that doesn't have flat walls.
 
Thx for testing and the helpfull picture :-) I'll try to find some more stuff.

Oh and WR B hitting grounded is just a small change but I like it.
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
lol the CPU JIed my GS B+K. didn't even know this was possible.

EDIT: Damn I tried in trainingmode and it is horribly easy to JI :-/
 
The A throw doesnt W! as well which sucks but it's not a big deal. GS B+K has sum stupid issues. I had no idea it could be JI-ed. Should've known since it's notated as a throw. Zas' JFs sumtimes whiff too leaving him completely open. I swear if it's not one thing it's another.

New frames in the list.

i12 GS AA -6, +4, +4
i12 44K
i13 JS AA -5, +5, +5
i13 FC A
i13 K -9, +2, +2
i14 GS 6A -14, -7, -7
i14 JS 6B8 -5, +2, +2
i14 GS 6B8 -3, +5, +5
i15 GS 3K -9, +2, +2
i16 JS 6A -16, -5, -1
i16 JS 6AB -, +3, LNC
i16 JS BB -9, +4, +4
i16 GS BB -9, +4, +4
i16 JS 1B -12, -1, -1
i16 GS 1B -10, +1, +1
i16 JS 6K -, 0, KND
i16 GS 6K -, +2, KND
i16 JS WS K -11 ,+1, +1
i16 GS WS K -11, +1, SHK
i16 JS 66K -7, +2, LNC
i18 JS 2A -19/20, -14, +2
i18 JS 2AB -22, STN, LNC
i18 4A -14/15, -, -
i18 4A:A N/A, +15, +15
i18 WS B -13, STN, AT
i19 JS 3A -10, +2, +2
i19 GS 3A -9, +4, +4
i19 JS 3B -12, LNC, LNC
i19 GS 3B -12, STN, STN
i19 JS 4B -17, -10, -10
i19 GS 4B -14/15, -7, -3
i19 GS 4B:B -16/17, STN, STN
i19 GS 4B:B:B -20, LNC, LNC
i19 JS 6B -15, -3, -3
i19 GS 6B -7, +3, +3
i19 GS 6BK -22, KND, KND
i21 4B+K -9, +5, +6
i22 JS 22B -5, +5, STN
i23 JS 66B -12, LNC, LNC
i26/27 4KB -14/15, KND, KND
1A -12, KND, KND
JUMP A -14/15, -4, -4
GS 6bK -23, -4, KND
1K -16, -4, -4
JS 3K -9, +4, +4
GS 3kA -11, +2, STN
JUMP K -13, KND, LNC
A+B -15, -5, +2
JS 2A+B -16/17, KND, KND
GS 2A+B -5, KND, LNC
4A+B +2, STN, STN
4[A+B] +17, STN, STN
11A -14/15, -2, -2
JS 22A -15, KND, KND
JS 44AA +2, KND, KND
JS 44A2A -, KND, KND
JS 44AB -17, -3, -3
GS 44A -17, KND, KND
GS 66A -6, +3, KND
GS 666A -3, +4, KND
GS 6666A -1, +6, KND
BF 66A +3, +10, KND
11B/44B -13/14, +2, LNC
CH 11B/44B +12, LNC, LNC
GS 22B +6, KND , KND
GS 33B -8, KND, KND
JS 11K -13, +6, STN
GS 11K -10, +6, STN
UD A -17, -12, -12
UD B +2, KND, KND
UD K -18, KND, KND

I typed up a bunch of changes I'd love to see in Tira in the future. Tell me what you guys think.

JS 2AB becomes NC. 35-40 dmg.
JS 6A causes actual STN on CH so followup happens.
4A:A upped to +16-18.
JS B+K has invincibility during the transition to aGI. F Kratos.
GS B+K distance issue removed. Make it guaranteed.
No self-damage PERIOD. GS 66B may be warranted though.
JS 66B, 4B+K, GS 33B all hit grounded.
88K is SAFER. -14/15.
GS 66A has a special air hit effect. An unAC-able spin or small relaunch like GS 22A.
JS 6B gets better frames. -10, +2, +2
GS 6BK is NCC and uninterruptable on block. Safe on block.
GS 6bK causes KND on NH. -12 block. - 2 hit.
4KB uninterruptable on block.
All UD moves except UD K (low) safe on block.
UD A + on hit.
UD B +4/5 on block.
4B+K dmg boost
JS 66AA either slightly safer or more dmg. -17 on block. 45-50 dmg.
SC3 11B's stance returns. Certain moves would be replaced with this change (ex. GS 33B).
JS 44A series harder to see.
GS 2A+B has a cancel.
JS 44B family is safe.
GS 44K dmg boost. BF 44K = 25-28
WS B+K = mid. Faster and causes an unAC-able spin on air hit so it can combo after moves like GS 4B:B:B.
GS 88B launches as high as NH as it does on CH.
A+B 34 dmg, safe, NC.
GS 6A range boost and/or starts mid.
11A SC3 properties including NH animation
1K dmg boost
1A dmg boost
JS 3K comboable STN on CH
4A+B dmg boost
33K gives back throw setups on NH like Zas WS K
11K -2/3 on block.
 
I agree with your list in general I just statet a few opinions of mine.

JS 2AB becomes NC. 35-40 dmg. -> This would be even better than Mitsu 2KB because of the A+K followup
JS 6A causes actual STN on CH so followup happens. -> Would be to good I think. Some more +frames would be great already
4A:A upped to +16-18.
JS B+K has invincibility during the transition to aGI. F Kratos. -> I'd prefer an earlier activation of the aGi and damage /2
GS B+K distance issue removed. Make it guaranteed.
No self-damage PERIOD. GS 66B may be warranted though. -> I have thought much about this actually. I wish there would be an input like BF 66 if you want lifeloss in exchange for more damage. Normal BF 66 B would do less damage but no lifeloss
JS 66B, 4B+K, GS 33B all hit grounded.
88K is SAFER. -14/15. ^
GS 66A has a special air hit effect. An unAC-able spin or small relaunch like GS 22A.
JS 6B gets better frames. -10, +2, +2
GS 6BK is NCC and uninterruptable on block. Safe on block.
GS 6bK causes KND on NH. -12 block. - 2 hit.
4KB uninterruptable on block.
All UD moves except UD K (low) safe on block.
UD A + on hit.
UD B +4/5 on block.
4B+K dmg boost
JS 66AA either slightly safer or more dmg. -17 on block. 45-50 dmg.
SC3 11B's stance returns. Certain moves would be replaced with this change (ex. GS 33B).
JS 44A series harder to see.
GS 2A+B has a cancel.
JS 44B family is safe.
GS 44K dmg boost. BF 44K = 25-28
WS B+K = mid. Faster and causes an unAC-able spin on air hit so it can combo after moves like GS 4B:B:B. -> Sure this would be good but I'm already happy about the changes in BD now
GS 88B launches as high as NH as it does on CH.
A+B 34 dmg, safe, NC.
GS 6A range boost and/or starts mid.
11A SC3 properties including NH animation
1K dmg boost
1A dmg boost
JS 3K comboable STN on CH
4A+B dmg boost
33K gives back throw setups on NH like Zas WS K -> awsome idea but I'd make it faster around i16/17
11K -2/3 on block.[/QUOTE] -> yes I'd love this. -5 would be ok aswell because BT B+K would TC every high
 
I don't know notice that somebody but that's a deal. If you press in GS BT k then fast B+KB Tira doing BT move toward. Funny uslesss glich
 
lol really weird find. I tried a few things with it but haven't found any use for it :-P

EDIT: Random finds

CH GS 2A+B, GS22A, GS 6AAaaaa requires no timing anymore and rings out over a nice distance.
A+B+K,GS 44K, GS 66B is Combo on Ivy
 
I've also noticed that any variation on the GS 22A, GS 6AAAAA combo is much much easier to time, and ROs pretty far, and over short walls too. It's an improvement I enjoy very much =D
 
Damage wise it's not bad either. About 90 iirc and not too much damage to herself. CH GS88B, 22A, GS 6AAaaa is Tira's own little doomcombo :-P EDIT : CH 4B:B :B, 22A, GS 6AAaaa RO even further.

Other finds:
-In Gloomy 88K, 44K connects now on NH. Don't think it worked back in SC4.
-A+K aGI seems to activate earlier now and [A+K] window seems to last longer but still a bad move.

-Tira's backstep is the best improvement I've noticed so far. Dunno why they've given her such a shitty step in the original game.

I've gotten totally used to it in BD and now I can't play SC4 properly anymore ...
 
I've toyed around some more with the GS BT K glitch. It's actually great because you can cancel the recovery of BT K into BT B+K even after your opponent blocked it or got hit by it.

BT B+K works like an evade in this case because it TC during the whole animation and has a fast and huge "backstep". Nice tool to create whiffs.
 
Lol third post of mine in a row, Tira's not getting enough love these days :D


Here's Tira's self-damage for BD:

The damage in brackets is a pretty accurate guess of mine based on the damage numbers from here:
http://www.soularchive.jp/SCBD/walk-through/img/pdf/Tira.pdf

Everything else is just copied.


GS 6AA = -1 -2 = -3
(GS 6AAaaa = -1 -2 -2 -2 = -7)

GS 666A = -3
(GS 66666A =-3 -1 -1 = -5)

GS 444A = -3
(GS 44444A = -3 -1 -1 = -5)

GS 666B = -1 -1 -1 -3 = -6
(GS 66666B = -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -3 = -8)

GS 444B = -3
(GS 44444B = -3 -1 -1 = -5)

GS 666K = -2
(GS 66666K = -2 -1 -1 -1 = -5)

GS 444K = -6
(GS 44444K = -6 -2 -2 = -10)


A+K = -8
[A+K] = -8 -8 = -16
[[A+K]] = -8 -8 -8 = -24
A+K aGI = -5


8WAYRUN:
JS 44K = -5
JS 44[K] = -5 -20 = -25

GS [9]_[6]_[3] A = -1
GS 22_88 A = -4
GS [4] A = -2

GS [6] B = -1 -1 -3 = -5
GS 22 B = -2
GS 88 B = -2

GS[6] K = -1
GS [4] K = -5
 
New semi-useful techtraps:

11_77 K (on stunned opponent) -> iWS B+K,B catches all but backtech (timing is tricky because not all hits will connect if done incorrectly)

CH 4B:B :B, 22_88A, GS 44K -> iWS B+K,B (only works with 4B:B :B as launcher because 44K pulls the opponent in afterwards instead of pushing him away)

EDIT: I just realized that these techtraps aren't BD exclusive. Work in SC4 aswell but are more risky because of the missing followup on whiff.
 
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