Daishi no longer works at Project Soul

[Malice]

With all due respect, Malice. As a whole it was feasible and something is always better than nothing but it's difficult to be okay with this when it's a bit of a far cry from previous iterations and you are made aware that the scv story was gutted by I believe 3/4th's.

I didn't say you had to like the story mode in SCV. I'm not a fan of it either, but the previous games just gives you some text, a few AI opponents to beat up, and a short ending clip. So I don't see what was so great about the actual story modes in the previous games unless you want to shoehorn a story in between grinding for unlocks.

But the story isn't by any means TOP priority. Things like whiffing issues, glitches, and general inconsistencies would be a bigger problem. I don't agree with current FG company tactics such as making the same game with a few added features repeatedly ETC but more to the point I have a big issue with rushing games and still releasing it. This may indeed be how the real world is but half assing your work shouldn't be okay, regardless of the reasoning behind such decisions.

If this was back in the day where the game would first come out in the arcades and then 1-2 years later it makes its way to console, things would be different. But companies don't have unlimited time and resources to spend on story mode, or they spend more resources on story and less resources in other areas such as the actual fighting.

snip

Everyone started at the casual level at one point or another. It's just on these forums is where people do clash.

But they did try to make the game appeal to as many as possible by introducing new game mechanics, removing unnecessary things so as to not overwhelm new players, and making sure that the online wasn't hot garbage. And alot of people were playing this game when it first came out, and there's still plenty of new Japanese players who are still playing.

However this is still a fighting game, so your primary reason to buy it should be to fight against other people. Any other reason should be secondary. Yet here we are almost 2 years later and people are still crying about story mode. If you want to blame someone, blame the producer, but it's time to let it go.

And if you want to really see some hot garbage, just look in the fanfic section.

 

[Iceweb38]

I didn't say you had to like the story mode in SCV. I'm not a fan of it either, but the previous games just gives you some text, a few AI opponents to beat up, and a short ending clip. So I don't see what was so great about the actual story modes in the previous games unless you want to shoehorn a story in between grinding for unlocks.

Finally, someone who speaks the truth there!

 

[christina22]

yeah I do love SC2 (more than tekken 4 although the story was good but still pissed off after 10 years no Nina/Steve follow up) and was unaware it actually had any story aside from the destined battles and profiles but the reason I loved was the extra modes. I think if SC5 (did not play it) had extra single player modes like in previous installment a lot of people can look past the crappy storyline.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

Go watch a movie or read a book or play a different game if you want a story. You complaining here does absolutely nothing besides you getting told to stfu

Are we seriously going to go through this rediculous debate again? Let people enjoy the game for what they get out of it. People who follow the story make up an equal level of the fanbase. Thats the reality. Opinions are bound to diverge. Your complaining about it won't change the fact.

Like it or not, the game needs to appeal to as many people as possible.

The real question nobody seems to want to answer is: Why can't we have both? Content AND Gameplay? At what point in history did people honestly see this as impossible?

 

[Robert_J_King]

Like I said, the glitches and anything related to gameplay should have top priority. I just died because SET 44A BE didn't come out yet it cost me meter. GG's???

 

[Party Wolf]

Are we seriously going to go through this rediculous debate again? Let people enjoy the game for what they get out of it. People who follow the story make up an equal level of the fanbase. Thats the reality. Opinions are bound to diverge. Your complaining about it won't change the fact.

You are an idiot

 

[DevilsDisguise]

You are an idiot

Thanks for being the example. Right now you fit exactly that problem here.

Story, much like graphics, should NEVER be a negative in a video game; it should always be either a neutral or a positive.

Thats just contradictory to what you just said.

I never said either of those things. D: Salarta said that, not me. I don't know how you quoted me lol.

I miss-qouted then.

 

[Norik]

Thanks for being the example. Right now you fit exactly that problem here.

Party Wolf

Problem

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

Thats just contradictory to what you just said.

Do tell.

 

[Ishimaru Jinrai]

Are we seriously going to go through this rediculous debate again? Let people enjoy the game for what they get out of it. People who follow the story make up an equal level of the fanbase. Thats the reality. Opinions are bound to diverge. Your complaining about it won't change the fact.
The real question nobody seems to want to answer is: Why can't we have both? Content AND Gameplay? At what point in history did people honestly see this as impossible?

I think it's like the Tekken Syndrome, lot's of people like the game because of the characters, like my cousin think Jin Kazama is the coolest, and Lili is hot. But the reality of it is it's core mechanics, how well the game plays. If you have a poor fighting game mechanics and poor online, yet a deep story mode with likable characters, Soul Calibur becomes nothing more than a 1v1 RPG fighter game. >:]

 

[Robert_J_King]

Thanks for being the example. Right now you fit exactly that problem here.

I thought double posting was a no-no.

You are an idiot

Also: "Behold, Party Wolf will lead you to the truth"!

 

[salarta]

Go watch a movie or read a book or play a different game if you want a story. You complaining here does absolutely nothing besides you getting told to stfu

More accurate to say that my complaining here allows me to say something that matters to me, while causing people that don't want it to be said to whine that someone doesn't agree with them that fighting games should be absolutely nothing but gameplay. Because giving the impression that you're playing as more than Nunchuck-Man or Sword-Man or Sword-Man 2 is deemed unnecessary by some.

Design and aesthetics ≠ Story

1) Design and aesthetics becomes story if your design and aesthetics involves giving them meaningful names and looks and backstories as the Soul series has done from the very beginning. 2) Design and aesthetics is not gameplay, so to say that's important is to admit that gameplay isn't the only thing that's important about a fighting game.

This all links back to the fact that this is a fighting game and not an RPG, therefore Project Soul have no reason whatsoever to make the story awesome over making the gameplay aspects awesome.

This is the first thing someone part of the "story doesn't matter" crowd has said that actually seems to fit. Gameplay being most important makes perfect sense. Gameplay being the only thing that matters, or story not being important because it's not gameplay? No.

The game should be catered more to competitive players than casual players who just want an RPG-like story and want to play dress-up. I think Project Soul focused quite a lot on the casual parts of the game (i.e. CAS and Story Mode) than what they usually do and yet what do we have? Casuals complaining in every thread that they possibly can about how horrible the story is and blah blah blah.

Not to say that they didn't do any work on gameplay aspects of the game, the game's gameplay is great however I think that gameplay should come as top priority before stuff like CAS.

Saying the game should be catering more to competitive players sounds to me more like personal bias of people that are hardcore fighting game fans expecting that fight games must be focused almost entirely on feeding the hardcore crowd than on actually being enjoyable and attractive to the majority. For one, that's the easiest way to kill sales, which ultimately hurts anything the fighting game fans want because it leads to a downward spiral of diminishing sales -> lower budget -> less time and resources to make the game (including the coveted gameplay) -> worse quality -> diminishing sales. You can see this right now with SC2HD and Lost Swords, the latter of which seems to be generating complaints from hardcore fighting fans for being a cheap cash-in.

Secondly, it's a mistaken assumption that story fans "want to play dress-up." Speaking personally, I've NEVER cared about alternate costumes, or about Create-a-Soul. I've used it once or twice to screw around, but I'd have bought any of the past Soul Calibur games I bought if that mode didn't exist, for the same reason I bought Mortal Kombat 9 when the last one of those I'd bought before MK9 was Deadly Alliance. CaS is a mode that means nothing to me. The game could exist without it and I'd be perfectly content.

The complaints from casuals weren't a result of SC5 having a story mode. That's just ridiculous. The complaints were a result of doing things with the story mode that didn't need to be done and nobody asked to have done. The team behind the game had CONSTANT cues as to what fans wanted story-wise, and the team ignored that to do their own thing. You can't say they didn't when everyone was practically screaming at them to include Taki but they still kept her out while they kept her forced replacement Natsu in there. It's no different than fighting game fans complaining about how horrendously imbalanced a character or mechanic is gameplay-wise, only for the team to completely ignore the complaints and add more flaws just like the one everyone's complaining about.

I didn't say you had to like the story mode in SCV. I'm not a fan of it either, but the previous games just gives you some text, a few AI opponents to beat up, and a short ending clip. So I don't see what was so great about the actual story modes in the previous games unless you want to shoehorn a story in between grinding for unlocks.

However this is still a fighting game, so your primary reason to buy it should be to fight against other people. Any other reason should be secondary. Yet here we are almost 2 years later and people are still crying about story mode. If you want to blame someone, blame the producer, but it's time to let it go.

And if you want to really see some hot garbage, just look in the fanfic section.

By comparison of today, the story mode of the earlier Soul Calibur games is threadbare, since we have games like Blazblue and Mortal Kombat 9 forging the path toward fighting games that understand the value of having a story to go with beating people up. But at the time, the Soul series games were more involved story-wise than any other franchise. It's still a fighting game and gameplay is the most important part, but it's not the only important part, and it doesn't have to be the primary reason for someone to buy the game.

People aren't likely to "let it go"... well, ever, because black marks are rarely forgotten. But the strength of those feelings can diminish to a point where it's hardly ever said, and how long it takes for that to happen depends on how long it takes for an SC6 to come out that undoes the unnecessary junk done in SC5. I think all the massive promotion of Sophitia lately with Lost Swords and Warriors Orochi is also improving perception of the company, since it's a visible sign that the company knows they screwed up with how they treated her in particular and suggests they understand how much she (and by extension all the other characters needlessly thrown away for SC5) matters to casuals.

The real question nobody seems to want to answer is: Why can't we have both? Content AND Gameplay? At what point in history did people honestly see this as impossible?

I think the reality is less that anyone thinks we can't have both, and more that people obsessed with the gameplay are angry that people that care more about the story aren't rushing out to buy the game based on gameplay alone, and therefore sales suffered. While a "story mode" was included with SC5 (that was basically "this is what Daishi wants therefore it happens"), the greater emphasis was on gameplay, and Daishi came from a background of gameplay work.

We're in a community filled with people that live and breathe gameplay and only gameplay, and everything else is fluff to them. When you're not a gameplay nut and you tell them "I care about story more," it's reminding them to their faces that catering exclusively or mainly to their personal interests is not a sound business move, that what they care about isn't the only important thing about the franchise. The most nervous of the gameplay-focused group may even deeply fear that the company will stop caring about gameplay entirely and let it go to hell because story is what actually sells for a lot of casuals.

Gameplay and story are both important. Story was screwed over with SC5, and the game suffered for it, even though the gameplay was apparently good (don't know, never played). They're fearing a backlash of the company not supporting the interests of hardcore fighting game fans and catering only to casuals. Of course, if the company is at all smart, they'll try to strike a balance between the two and provide quality for both. Because realistically, bad gameplay is just as bad if not worse than bad story.

 

[DevilsDisguise]

Its a fighting game. If all you care about is story and characters, go read a fucking book or play the latest weeaboo anime rehash RPG.Story, much like graphics, should NEVER be a negative in a video game; it should always be either a neutral or a positive. The fact you aren't playing a fighting game for gameplay is just absurd, and you are the reason namco is feeding us shit like Lost Swords.

First you say that enjoying SC for its story or mythos is apparently stupid of the person you replied to, to feel
then, you say the story and graphics should never be a "negative" implying that they must be enjoyable in incorperated at all... How can you enjoy it if its apparently to you, stupid to do so?

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

I never used the word stupid. You're putting words in my mouth.

Having a story is fine. Liking a good story is fine. Playing a video game solely for the story is not fine, especially if the story isn't even the main attraction, which it usually isn't. I guess following RPGs for the story or, fuck, visual novels is understandable, but a fighting game?

Story in a video game, whether its bad or good, shouldn't heavily influence your opinion of the game, and it damn sure shouldn't be the deciding factor in skipping it or not.


At least it isn't as bad as people skipping SC2HDO entirely because it doesn't have japanese voices. Fuck those people.

 

[Norik]

Do you people seriously believe anyone will read through 11 gigantic fucking paragraphs of bitching and faulty rhetoric based on misinformation and opinions we've already disagreed with?

Get a hobby.

 

[DeathCom]

I've always said that in today's world, a great story gets a player interested in the game, great gameplay keeps them coming back.

Sadly, SCV has easily the worst story elements the series ever had. As for the gameplay... well its good at doing what it set out to, cater to people who don't like Soulcalibur's traditional play style.

Anyway, someone's head had to roll for the dip in sales the series took. I must say I'm pleased the blame went where it mostly should have. The man cared nothing for the history of the series or the importance of it's lore. He tried to strip away anything he personally didn't like, refused to listen to the majority of fans, and just pressed on with his Street Fighter III vision for the future of Soulcalibur.

However I worry about Hoshino. It doesn't look like any time was really spent bringing SCII to PS3 and 360. The online part of the title just barely meets the definition of online. The removal of the original Japanese voices shows that he too doesn't have the true fans in mind. It also doesn't help that his twitter account acts like a spam bot. I don't think he reads english, and thus nothing the average US fan says will get through to the team. Perhaps the voice option was removed because of some sort of price bracket for keeping the game under 1GB... but at the $20 price point, that issue should have been moot. I'm not even gonna get started on Lost Swords....

 

[CrazyYoshimitsu]

Well i don't care who is running the ship for Sc I just want some classic SC gameplay that isn't mega complex for no reason.

 

[Malice]

This is the first thing someone part of the "story doesn't matter" crowd has said that actually seems to fit. Gameplay being most important makes perfect sense. Gameplay being the only thing that matters, or story not being important because it's not gameplay? No.

I think story is important, but I'm talking about specifically the story mode which haven't evolved beyond mindlessly beating on AI opponents. Plus SCV is almost two years old. It's not going to change. Let it go.

Saying the game should be catering more to competitive players sounds to me more like personal bias of people that are hardcore fighting game fans expecting that fight games must be focused almost entirely on feeding the hardcore crowd than on actually being enjoyable and attractive to the majority.

The game should cater to both crowds, but the reality is that devs don't have unlimited time and resources to please everybody. SCV would have went over better if it had modes like team battle, survival, or a COTS mode.

Secondly, it's a mistaken assumption that story fans "want to play dress-up." Speaking personally, I've NEVER cared about alternate costumes, or about Create-a-Soul. I've used it once or twice to screw around, but I'd have bought any of the past Soul Calibur games I bought if that mode didn't exist, for the same reason I bought Mortal Kombat 9 when the last one of those I'd bought before MK9 was Deadly Alliance. CaS is a mode that means nothing to me. The game could exist without it and I'd be perfectly content.

There's alot more people that care about CAS than the actual story mode. See SC3. See SC4. See the subforum dedicated to CAS.

The complaints from casuals weren't a result of SC5 having a story mode. That's just ridiculous. The complaints were a result of doing things with the story mode that didn't need to be done and nobody asked to have done. The team behind the game had CONSTANT cues as to what fans wanted story-wise, and the team ignored that to do their own thing. You can't say they didn't when everyone was practically screaming at them to include Taki but they still kept her out while they kept her forced replacement Natsu in there. It's no different than fighting game fans complaining about how horrendously imbalanced a character or mechanic is gameplay-wise, only for the team to completely ignore the complaints and add more flaws just like the one everyone's complaining about.

I didn't get everything I wanted for Christmas either, but people want to enact their own fantasies through story mode and are mad at the end result, or because they didn't get a story for a particular character. Just write a fanfic.

By comparison of today, the story mode of the earlier Soul Calibur games is threadbare, since we have games like Blazblue and Mortal Kombat 9 forging the path toward fighting games that understand the value of having a story to go with beating people up. But at the time, the Soul series games were more involved story-wise than any other franchise. It's still a fighting game and gameplay is the most important part, but it's not the only important part, and it doesn't have to be the primary reason for someone to buy the game.

The difference with SCV is that it's not an arcade game. BlazBlue is an arcade game and has been through many iterations. You can focus resources on things like story mode and other casual modes when you already have the core game completed and being played in the arcade.

MK9 has a great story mode, but the story mode has no replay value, plus the core game has problems and the online play sucks. What's more important in a fighting game: fighting against other people or a story mode with no replay value?

People aren't likely to "let it go"... well, ever, because black marks are rarely forgotten. But the strength of those feelings can diminish to a point where it's hardly ever said, and how long it takes for that to happen depends on how long it takes for an SC6 to come out that undoes the unnecessary junk done in SC5. I think all the massive promotion of Sophitia lately with Lost Swords and Warriors Orochi is also improving perception of the company, since it's a visible sign that the company knows they screwed up with how they treated her in particular and suggests they understand how much she (and by extension all the other characters needlessly thrown away for SC5) matters to casuals.

People need to stop acting so scorned about SCV. It's a video game, not a woman.

I think the reality is less that anyone thinks we can't have both, and more that people obsessed with the gameplay are angry that people that care more about the story aren't rushing out to buy the game based on gameplay alone, and therefore sales suffered. While a "story mode" was included with SC5 (that was basically "this is what Daishi wants therefore it happens"), the greater emphasis was on gameplay, and Daishi came from a background of gameplay work.

I'm not angry, but if your primary reason for buying a fighting game is something other than the actual fighting, then be prepared for disappointment. Plus the story mode was outsourced to CC2. Blame them. Instead people want to blame Daishi because they have no one else to direct their hatred towards.

We're in a community filled with people that live and breathe gameplay and only gameplay, and everything else is fluff to them. When you're not a gameplay nut and you tell them "I care about story more," it's reminding them to their faces that catering exclusively or mainly to their personal interests is not a sound business move, that what they care about isn't the only important thing about the franchise. The most nervous of the gameplay-focused group may even deeply fear that the company will stop caring about gameplay entirely and let it go to hell because story is what actually sells for a lot of casuals.

I don't live and breathe only gameplay. I just don't want story mode to take precedence over gameplay or have another repeat of SC3 where the core game is full of glitches. People who buy the game just for the story will trade the game back in a week later for something else, which is why you can easily find plenty of copies of SC3 for $5 at Gamestop.

Gameplay and story are both important. Story was screwed over with SC5, and the game suffered for it, even though the gameplay was apparently good (don't know, never played). They're fearing a backlash of the company not supporting the interests of hardcore fighting game fans and catering only to casuals. Of course, if the company is at all smart, they'll try to strike a balance between the two and provide quality for both. Because realistically, bad gameplay is just as bad if not worse than bad story.

You can enjoy a game for different reasons, but for a fighting game, gameplay is more important. That's how it always been. I'm sure that if given the time, the devs would have tried to please everyone, however they're not the ones cutting the checks. So we either have to deal with the game that we have or play something else. But people need to stop acting like it's the end of the world when it comes to story mode.

 

[FluffyQuack]

However this is still a fighting game, so your primary reason to buy it should be to fight against other people. Any other reason should be secondary. Yet here we are almost 2 years later and people are still crying about story mode. If you want to blame someone, blame the producer, but it's time to let it go.

And if you want to really see some hot garbage, just look in the fanfic section.

But Soul Calibur has always been known for its emphasis on singleplayer content. Best example being SC3, and I think there's a large subset of fans who expect that kind of content. And I don't think adding that content should harm the versus modes. After all, it's not as if the entire development team is there to work on balance and the core mechanics.

You mention some good points in how they improved SC5, but if you look at singleplayer content, it pales in comparison to older games. And this could be the reason why SC5 is one of the worst reviewed games in the series and why it sold worse than SC4.

 

[PNC_Supremacy]

SCVI will come out, and if the gameplay is just as rewarding as SCV. I will continue to play it.