Dampierre Q&A / General Discussion

OOFMATIC said:
I don't use that move to combo 6B into the sneeze, but rather have them block the 6B and get hit by the sneeze, which will then combo into B!E!.
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It might work sometimes, but your opponent can just sidestep the sneeze after guarding the 6B.
 
Somebody said:
It might work sometimes, but your opponent can just sidestep the sneeze after guarding the 6B.
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Actually that's not true. 6B BE's block stun is much larger than 6B's, so it's impossible to step or interrupt the sneeze after guarding the 6B if the quickest version of the sneeze comes out.

I forgot to mention though, because of the pushback from guarding 6B BE, this tactic is only practical if the opponent's back is to a wall or ring edge, otherwise the sneeze won't connect after they block the 6B.
 
If there haas not been any change post-patch to 6B BE then you still can side-step after guarding the first hit EVEN with the fastest sneeze, what you said really only applies to the corner of the stage, not just any wall. This is the same thing as saying Yoshimitsu's FLE~B+K infinite connects against any wall; it only works if you have the correct orientation with the corner, which prevents opponent from teching (very unreliable).

I don't think this is a pratical option for Dampierre at all, frankly it's a waste of meter. You should be saving your meter to utilize your 44K BE, CE and 33_99B CE options, only.
 
Please do some testing before posting your "facts". I guarantee you that 6B BE gives so much advantage on block that the fastest sneeze version of it can not be stepped, interrupted or even Just Guarded, so long as their back is to the ring edge or wall to hold them from 6B's pushback.

As for the practicality, it's obviously not something that should be used often due to the random factor, but every once in a while it is worth taking the chance of setting it up, depending on how much of a risk you'd be willing to take for a good chunk of damage.

As for the best form of meter usage, the top 3 for me in order of importance are GI, CE, and 33_99B BE. I find the least practical use of the meter is with 44K BE, simply because I don't feel it's worth the meter in terms of risk vs reward when it comes to damage output and random factor. The only time I usually use 44K BE is to combo after 22_88B and that's usually if I'm going for the KO.
 
Something else to add, dampierre has some very character specific punishment/interupt combos that are very good and far outperforms all other chars punishment when used.

For example! against leixia 3B+K K you can 6B the 2nd K's jump into B!E! and 4B for 100+ dmg. Oh le bello! such extravagance! I have a few others but I'll ask the discussion if they know of any other great interupts/punishments with damps? He is full of hidden surprises.
 
OOFMATIC show your proof with actual frame data, or make some initiative to start filling in frame data wiki, aside from that you cannot prove your point. Do some testing before posting your "facts", your "guarantee" is without valid confirmable proof.

My suggestions:
  1. Find the frames for 6B on guard.
  2. Find how many frame from 6B to sneeze in the BE.
  3. Find and compare the instant B+K to the BE version.
  4. Post your results and your source(s).
  5. If your right, I'll fully apologize.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
OOFMATIC show your proof with actual frame data, or make some initiative to start filling in frame data wiki, aside from that you cannot prove your point. Do some testing before posting your "facts", your "guarantee" is without valid confirmable proof.
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Not to be rude or come off or so, but how can I trust you? Sometimes my "BS detector" rings because I know something doesn't sit well with your info. For pete's sake if you want your info to be considered useful, test it over and have the experts/vets test it to see if it's valid. Because even if you seem smart, I can't seem to trust you compared to vets who know it better/mods of Soul Arena. If you show a clear good vid or have some info to share, get the experts/vets to agree, then all will be well.


I've been seeing you lurk about in Yoshi and Damp arena. And while I appreciate input to help us, dislike how you're dual profiling with the profiles DOCTORSTUPID/Somebody. Stop that, buddy.
 
Somebody said:
I am not DOCTORSTUPID; different people and different accounts altogether.
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Still not convinced no matter how good you disguise it. In that one thread where OOF called your info invalid though praised your dedication, one profile liked the other. You sure you're not utilizing double tabs and all?

Regardless, is 11K(correct my frame if I'm wrong) good? Because I feel as though it helps me get in haha.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
OOFMATIC show your proof with actual frame data, or make some initiative to start filling in frame data wiki, aside from that you cannot prove your point. Do some testing before posting your "facts", your "guarantee" is without valid confirmable proof.

My suggestions:
  1. Find the frames for 6B on guard.
  2. Find how many frame from 6B to sneeze in the BE.
  3. Find and compare the instant B+K to the BE version.
  4. Post your results and your source(s).
  5. If your right, I'll fully apologize.
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First of all I don't have time to fill in frame data wiki's like I used to. If i could, I would, but life takes precedence.

Also I don't need to prove anything with frames because I'm not making any wild claims. I'm stating something that can be easily tested by anyone in training mode. It's also near impossible to prove some of what you're asking.

The only thing that can be proven is 6B, which is +2, and the fastest version of B+K which is i23.

The frames on block for 6B and 6B BE are different. You can tell this by testing both moves and seeing how the block stun varies between the two.

If 6B BE was the same on block as 6B (+2), then the fastest sneeze during 6B BE would not only be steppable, but interruptible by anything i20 or faster (since the fast sneeze (normally i23) would come at i21, 2 frames faster due to the +2).

But the fact that 6B BE adds such a long VISIBLE block stun that you can't even step, attack or Just Guard, proves that the frames on block are different between 6B and 6B BE. Trust me, the block stun on 6B BE is huge.

In theory, it would actually be possible to find the frame data, but that would require finding exactly how many variations of B+K there are and how to identify them, then through constant trial and error find the speeds of every variation. After that you would have to identify the variations of the sneeze from 6B BE, and match them with the ones from B+K (you have to assume that they're the same). After that you would need set the computer to do 6B BE on you, have you block it and then make one of your moves clash with one of the slower variations of the sneeze (which you would have identified and found frames for prior). From that you would know the exact data of what the first hit of 6B BE is on block.

Not worth it if you ask me, especially for moves that it's not necessary to know frame data for.
 
Pocky-Yoshi said:
Still not convinced no matter how good you disguise it. In that one thread where OOF called your info invalid though praised your dedication, one profile liked the other. You sure you're not utilizing double tabs and all?

Regardless, is 11K(correct my frame if I'm wrong) good? Because I feel as though it helps me get in haha.
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You are spot on. I called him out on having two accounts and he PM'd me claiming that the reason it's the same IP address is because it's two people in the same household using separate accounts. I don't buy it considering things like what you mentioned about accounts liking each other's posts, and also mods get notified about posts that get flagged and who flagged them, well when mods get that notification they notice that two accounts (Somebody/DOCTORSTUPID) often flag the same post within short periods of time from each other.

Anyways as for your question about 11K, it's actually a very good move for getting in, but only in certain situations. The problem with it is that not only is it unsafe on block, but on hit as well when it puts you in PB. Of course it's good to use un unsuspecting opponents who don't realize to punish it, but a more practical use for it is to do it on wakeup, since they can't punish you for using it if you hit them while they're grounded.

The time I use 11KK most often is after I successfully land B!E!~4B, in which case I will run up to them and do it. If they start getting used to it and start blocking low expecting it, then I mix it up with 66B, 623B or sometimes 33B BE.

Another great use for 11K is to catch Lexia out of her WR B on wakeup. Since 11K has good step killing properties, and many Lexia players like to get up with WR B which auto steps and avoids a lot of attacks, 11K is a perfect move to catch it (a well placed 66A works as well).
 
Well you shouldn't make claims without proof, you have said this yourself. Now you say it's not worth your time to consider writing out the frame data. Perhaps someone else should do it then, that is if your still not willing.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
Well you shouldn't make claims without proof, you have said this yourself. Now you say it's not worth your time to consider writing out the frame data. Perhaps someone else should do it then, that is if your still not willing.
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Why don't you do it then, smart guy?
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
Huh that's odd? Seems I've just guarded the fastest sneeze after blocking 6B.

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This BE never seemed all that useful, i dont understand what it's intent was, it doesnt really do good damage and it can be sidestepped and as we've seen here JG. I'd much rather it work similar to Ivy's 4B(?) BE where you can get a guaranteed follow up if it is blocked or hits.
 
I had a feeling I was wrong about the JG part. When I was attempting it I was trying to JG it myself, rather than getting the CPU to do it, so since I couldn't get it to JG and I felt the ridiculously long block stun I just assumed it wasn't possible. Should have gotten the computer to do it to make sure.

But anyways as I explained before 6B BE still isn't completely useless. Even though it's possible to JG it, that doesn't mean much since they still can't step or interrupt the fast sneeze. It just depends how much of a risk you're willing to take for a good chunk of damage.
 
The fact that the fastest UB sneeze is JGable doesn't even matter, think about it. Why would you attempt to JG the fastest sneeze when most of the time you step straight away due to a higher chance of it NOT being the fastest sneeze? Why risk a delay in your step to do it, and who would ever even be able to JG it in a match

The fact that you couldn't JG it yourself and had to resort to having the CPU do it doesn't help either.

So Oof is right as he explained, you can't step the fastest sneeze to a wall/edge and im 100% sure they wont JG it for reasons outlined above. so its use next to an edge isnt limited by that.

But is it even worth using next to a wall/edge? Depends how much your willing to risk for it. If you get the fastest sneeze and it hits, great! free RO!, but if you don't? Boo! they get free RO/W! or a Combo if your lucky! and since the chance of it not being instant is significantly smaller than the chance of it doing one of the other animations, it seems far too risky to do it next to the edge. Even if your about to lose it's not worth using since he has a few good front RO moves anyway, so its still not worth the risk, go for a 33BK or 33B BE and hope you get the GC, theres probably a higher chance of that happening than getting the fastest sneeze.

All in all it's pretty useless, never worth using imo. Damps is cool and all but 6B BE is possibly the worst BE in the game.
 
GoingLopsided said:
But is it even worth using next to a wall/edge? Depends how much your willing to risk for it. If you get the fastest sneeze and it hits, great! free RO!, but if you don't? Boo! they get free RO/W!
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Unfortunately, I don't think the sneeze can RO or wall splat. Maybe the sneeze can RO or wall splat under special circumstances, but I've never had it happen. If 1B somehow could RO from a combo, 6B BE would be slightly more useful, but I haven't had that happen either.
 
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