Dampierre's Stances

Punchdrunk

[09] Warrior
The most interresting part about him! I thought I'd get this going.

First of all, what moves puts you in what stance:

3A,A,A,A... - Random Fake Pain to Poker Bluff Face Down Head Towards
This is an infinite(?!) combo on NH, but pushes back after 2 hits unless in corner. Random chance of Dampie entering Fake Pain stance, and causing crumble stun on opp at the same time. Each hit is 10dmg (no scaling). You can enter Fake Pain on the second hit, but there likely is no limit to how many hits you can land! Probabilities of this can be found one post down, and .

1[K] - Random Fake Pain to Poker Bluff FUFT on hit/block
Chargeable low GB. Uncharged version has about 80% chance of Fake Pain on hit, while the charged version only have about 20% chance. Followup FP A+G/B+G techtraps in all directions.

4B - Random Poker Bluff FUFT
He walks backwards while stabbing upwards. Used for juggles.

B+K - Random Poker Bluff FUFT
Unblockable where he sneezes on the opponent. Sometimes he just falls backwards into Poker Bluff.

66B - Poker Bluff FUFT on hit, FDHT on block or whiff
Long range lunge. Unsafe on block from where all options from PB can be interrupted.

33_99B - Random immediate Poker Bluff FDHT
Good TCing combo starter that's safe on block. About 33% chance of getting Poker Bluff instead though.

66K - Poker Bluff FUFT on block
Tech jumping high that knocks down. Punishable on block.

44K - Poker Bluff FDHT
He jumps in a wide arc, headbutting the opponent. Slow but pretty safe. Some poker bluff options can beat out not so fast punishment.

Side Throws - Poker Bluff FUFT
Left side throw can land you on your feet if you mash directions during the animation.

623K :K :K :K :K :K :K :K - Poker Bluff FUFT
If you finish all 7 just frames you'll land on your feet.

Wallsplat - Poker Bluff (direction dependant on type of wallsplat)
4B and PB B can self-induce a wallsplat, but Dampierre enters PB after wallsplats caused by the opponent as well.

The stances themselves:

Fake Pain Stance:
During Fake Pain Dampierre falls to the ground in some sort of silly looking crumple. The crumple is the stance.When he hits the ground he's actually in Poker Bluff stance for a brief moment, before turning into plain downed stance.

FP B - Mid GB that hits grounded (blockable) and Front/Back tech. Also self ring outs.
FP Throws - catches crouching opponents and techtraps in all directions after 1K and 3A.


Poker Bluff Stance:
This stance is even briefer than Fake Pain. It's active the short moment after he hits the ground and before he lays flat. Dampierre also enters PB automatically after wallsplat.
The (TH/TF) denotes if he attacks Towards his Head or Towards his Feet.

PB A (FD=TH, FU=TF) - High hitting TJ that knocks down. Can self ring out, so make sure you know if he's facing up/down.
PB B (TH) - Mid hitting AT. Sometimes you get 48dmg and ends up in PBFUHT, sometimes it fails and you end upp in PBFUFT. Mashable for extra damage.
PB K (TF) - Fast low with crumple stun. Shifts between FD/FU. Combos into another PB K.
PB Throws (TH) - Same as PB B AT but work as a low attack.


There, now we just have to figure out how to use this stuff. Thanks goes to everyone contributing to this thread!
 

Eyce_Theon

[09] Warrior
So I've done some research on Damierre's moves that randomly transition into a stance, by taking 100 samples of each move hitting a neutral position CPU in training:

Code:
- is just for reference, 100 count
o means the move did not enter a stance
x means the move entered a stance

33B 31/100 entered Poker Bluff
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xoxxoooxoxoxxoooooooxooooooooxoooooxxooxoxxxxoooxxxooooxoxoxoooxoooooxooxoxxooooooooxxoooooooxoxoooo

1K 83/100 entered Fake Pain
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xoxxxxoxxoxxxxxoxxxxxxxxxxoxxxxxxoxxxxxoxoxxoxxoxxxxxxxxxxxxoxxxxxoxxoxxxoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxoxxoxxxxo

1[K] 27/100 entered Fake Pain
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oooxoxooooxoooooxxoooxooooooooxoxoxoxoooxoooooooxooxoxoxxoooxoxooooooxxxoooxooxxoooooooooooooxooxxoo

3A... measured by number of hits
--------------------------------------------------------------------------1-1-----------------------
3462933335427232454322223432335777225262452486453263235264322522229425222312242223435343262643635232

2 hits 36/100 - or 100 tries hit at least 2 times
3 hits 23/100 - or 63 tries hit at least 3 times
4 hits 14/100 - or 41 tries hit at least 4 times
5 hits 10/100 - or 27 tries hit at least 5 times
6 hits  8/100 - or 17 tries hit at least 6 times
7 hits  4/100 - or 9 tries hit at least 7 times
8 hits  1/100 - or 5 tries hit at least 8 times
9 hits  2/100 - or 4 tries hit at least 9 times
10hits  0/100 - or 2 tries hit at least 10 times
11hits  1/100 - or 2 tries hit at least 11 times
12hits  1/100 - or 1 try hit at least 12 times

4B 38/100 entered Poker Bluff
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oxoxoxxoxxoxxoooxooooooxooooxooooooxoxoxooooxxoooooooooxoooxooxxoooxxxxxxoxxooxoxoxxxoooxoooxxxxoooo

B+K measured by speed of attack, or times head was reared back
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i32x3x33x222xiiii22322iiii22x3233i222223232xxx22ix3ix2322ix2ii22ixx233x3i32233x22i3x232xi2i2x32i2232

immediate execution(i)      - 21 times
moderate sneeze(1-2 rears)  - 39 times
slow sneeze(3 rears)        - 22 times
transitioned to Poker Bluff - 18 times

PB Throw (non-mashed) 33/100 entered PB FUFT instead of PB FUHT
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xoooooxoxoooxoxooooxoooooxxoooooxooxooooxooooxoxooxxoooooxoxoxoooxoxoxoxoooooxxoxxxooxxoooxoxoooxooo

And here's my interpretation.

33B has a ~33% chance of falling into Poker Bluff. At first I thought this sucked, but since the working version tech crouches while the stance version tech jumps, it has an odd habit of not getting punished. Even when you are hit during a PB transition, you're either airborne or grounded, so you probably won't be combo'd.

an uncharged 1K has a ~80% chance of leading into Fake Pain. This is good, you want FP to activate. Not only does 1K tech trap after quite a few of Damp's knockdowns, but FP A+G_B+G tech traps again after that. If your opponent likes to stay grounded, FP B them for good damage. This is his second major source of damage besides BE, 4B combos.
a fully charged 1K has a ~20% chance of leading into Fake Pain. The block stun on this is alot smaller than I first thought. I haven't used it very often.

3A... has a ~50% chance that you'll only get 2-3 hits in before going into Fake Pain, but I seriously doubt there's a limit on how many you can get (I got 19 hits during a wall combo once). If you're in a corner, give it a shot.

4B has a ~33% chance of falling into Poker Bluff. At first I thought my test result (38) was too low, but I repeated the test and got 32/100 transitions, so I believe this is accurate. Not that it REALLY matters, since 4B is only used to escape or to end a combo after BE.

B+K has five possible speeds, each with a ~20% chance. Immediate, 1 rear, 2 rears, 3 rears, and falling into PB. It isn't a great move, but if someone's turtling/freezing up against you B+K can net you a free combo. Note that when I say "moderate sneeze", I'm encompassing both the (1 rear) and (2 rears) speeds. They're hard to tell apart, and won't likely be the deciding factor of the sneeze hitting or not. Immediate speed however has no variance, and is almost guaranteed to interrupt your opponent. The difference between immediate and the second fastest speed is very noticeable.

PB B/Throw (non-mash) has a ~33% chance of causing you minor damage, and transitioning into FUFT Poker Bluff. The rest of the time, you inflict an extra 20 damage and transition into FUHT Poker Bluff. When mashed, this probability rises; the more damage you mash out of the throw, the more likely you are to miss the last hit and take some damage. Consider this risk carefully if the match is about to end - should you risk your remaining life if mashing might finish your opponent off?

*The this move is 50 punches, or 100 damage. Around 40 punches/80 damage, the self-damaging chance becomes 100% (or so significantly large that it might as well be 100% - however, this is likely still an inhuman mashing speed).
 

Punchdrunk

[09] Warrior
So I've done some research on Damierre's moves that randomly transition into a stance, by taking 100 samples of each move hitting a neutral position CPU in training
You sir, are insane! And I love it :)

Really interesting stuff. Especially your 3A research.
 

zyeoo

[08] Mercenary
Has anyone found a use for his FP throws? I can't ever think of a reason that the opponent would be ducking unless they are new against Dampierre. It his FP B was a high, maybe, but since it's a mid you NEVER DUCK when he's in FP stance. The stuns don't keep them in crouch state long enough either, so I am utterly clueless as to why he even has them. Unless there is a magical combo hiding somewhere..?
 

Punchdrunk

[09] Warrior
The grabs tech trap in all directions if 1K/[K] hits.
Awesome!

In PBHT atleast his Throw and B AT are a mid/low mixup. Though the B whiffs against a crouching Dampierre.
On blocked 66B, or anything else that leads to PBHT, all Dampierres options can be interrupted by Voldos 2K, which also hits grounded so delaying PB to regular downed position doesn't give anything either. Not awesome.
 

Eyce_Theon

[09] Warrior
66B can be mindgames'd at long range by purposefully falling early, out of the range the opponent was expecting. If they whiff an attack, capitalize with PB B.

That probably won't work multiple times in one match, but it's a viable trick.

Oh also, I found out that Dampierre enters PB after wallsplats. I thought it only worked from wallsplats he caused himself at first (from 4B, PB B, etc.) but I accidentally PB B'd an opponent after they wallsplatted me out of followup range.
 

zyeoo

[08] Mercenary
I've done missed 66B for PB and also a random BE that I'll stop after a few kicks for PB fun too. Unless it actually connects, then I'll try to finish it.

Right now, the only thing I hate about his stances is that you have very little/no time to think about what you should do. It'd be nice to have a stance longer than half a second.
 

Punchdrunk

[09] Warrior
It means that it's a random chance of entering the stance. Eyce posted the probabilities in the second post.
 

Eyce_Theon

[09] Warrior
Fixed a math error in the 3A... data, and changed my opinions on the moves and their transitions below it.

Gathered data for 4B and B+K as well. Edited the first post with updated information.

I had to test 4B twice because I was second guessing myself on how to estimate the percent, here's that test result. I also retested 1[K] to make sure ~20% was an accurate estimate, and I was correct.

Code:
1[K] 21/100 entered Fake Pain (2nd test)
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xoooxooxooxoooxoooxoooooxooooooxoooooooxxoxooxxoxooooooooooxoooooooooxxoooooxooooxoxooooooooooooooox

4B 32/100 entered Poker Bluff (2nd test)
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oooooxxooxoxxooooooxxoooooxoxooxoooxoooooxoooxxoxooxooooxxoooxoxooooooooxxooooxooxxoxxooxxoxxoooooxo
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
On several occasions I noticed damage being inflicted from doing a wallsplat on myself from PB. I went into training mode and I only got the damage to happen about once in several dozen tries. I don't have the patience to keep testing that but it seems like an extremely rare occurrence.

Another thing I noticed is that the probability of landing the last two punches in the PB throw/attack throw seems higher if you don't mash and go for the fewest amount of punches. Now I haven't tested this as extensively as Eyce_Theon tested the other random situations, so I could be wrong, but if this is true it means that it will be safer not to mash when doing the throw while you have very little to no life left, since you'll risk losing if the opponent kicks you off.
 

Eyce_Theon

[09] Warrior
That seem possible, I'll test it out later on. Something I've noticed about PB B/throw is that I've never gotten the last two punches twice in a row before. If it works once and I catch them with PB B again when they try and get up, I never get the chance to do it again.
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Holy balls. As I was setting up the PB throw mash vs. no mash test I decided to try a turbo macro, and on the first try I got in more punches than I ever have manually. I had to dial the speed up past 30 presses per second on ALL face buttons to find the mashing limit - 50 punches. As in, 100 damage (+2 per punch) added onto the entry animation (FP throw = +12 dmg, FP B = +20 dmg) plus a possible final two hits (+20 dmg).

140 possible damage from a single attack throw?...well, only if you can press all four face buttons faster than 30 times/sec. Which I doubt you can.

I'll post the PB throw mash vs. no mash test in a few minutes.
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Ok, I don't need to complete the mash test to know the result. Not a single fully-macro trial ended with the +20 dmg, he missed the last hits every time. The one time my finger slipped and didn't get the best damage from the punches, I got the hits. After a little more testing, this is my conclusion.

What I'm putting in the second post said:
Code:
PB Throw (non-mashed) 33/100 entered PB FUFT instead of PB FUHT
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xoooooxoxoooxoxooooxoooooxxoooooxooxooooxooooxoxooxxoooooxoxoxoooxoxoxoxoooooxxoxxxooxxoooxoxoooxooo

PB B/Throw (non-mash) has a ~33% chance of causing you minor damage, and transitioning into FUFT Poker Bluff. The rest of the time, you inflict an extra 20 damage and transition into FUHT Poker Bluff. When mashed, this probability rises; the more damage you mash out of the throw, the more likely you are to miss the last hit and take some damage. Consider this risk carefully if the match is about to end - should you risk your remaining life if mashing might finish your opponent off?

*The this move is 50 punches, or 100 damage. Around 40 punches/80 damage, the self-damaging chance becomes 100% (or so significantly large that it might as well be 100% - however, this is likely still an inhuman mashing speed).

Thanks for the tip Oof, turns out this is something we need to watch out for. About the damaging self-wallsplat though, I tried for like 10 minutes and couldn't replicate it. Is there some special circumstance it happened under?
 

Eyce_Theon

[09] Warrior
Been messing around with this game again recently, I realized FP Grab actually does techtrap after 3A too. Oops. More useful than I thought.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
About the damaging self-wallsplat though, I tried for like 10 minutes and couldn't replicate it. Is there some special circumstance it happened under?
I'm pretty late on this but after some testing I realized why he sometimes inflicts damage on self-wallsplats.

In SC4, if you GI the person into a wall, the damage that is inflicted on the opponent from the wall is based on the last move of yours that your opponent blocked, or got hit by. If it's the last move your opponent blocked, then the damage is 120% of the blocked move. If it's the last move your opponent got hit by, then the damage inflicted will be 20% of that move.

For example, if you block Hilde's 6B+K (35 damage), and then she GI's you into the wall, you will take 42 damage (120% of 35). If you got hit by her C4 B (180 damage), and the she GI's you into the wall, you will take 36 damage (20% of 180).

In SCBD, they got rid of wall splat damage based on the % of the last move you blocked, but they kept the 20% of the last move you got hit by. So when Dampierre self-wallsplat's and losses health it's because he got hit by a move previously.