Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Amanda said:
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I made mistakes in the mirror matches and let Jared get away with some auto-piloting. Studied the archive and realized where my faults were, so I learned a bit from that play. What upsets me though is that--that was Jared's last week in attending WNF for awhile so I probably won't get to play him again anytime soon.

I say it's upsetting because I hate it when my competition can't be around to give me a challenge.
 
HajinShinobi said:
I say it's upsetting because I hate it when my competition can't be around to give me a challenge.
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You should tell people your weaknesses. Maybe even tell them where to throw punish or hold during the fight.




Though I wonder at what point it becomes a backhanded way of trash talking instead of instruction...
 
I go to dead or alive 5 tournaments, but they're all at anime conventions. I won my last one, and got a coffee mug... HELL YEAH!! =3 Christie spam for the victory! *Peace sign pose*
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
i'm getting so annoyed at PSN players. they will stay in a room until the moon rises but the second they get beat they're gone. they will go to another room in hopes of being able to beat someone. when they lose there then they leave that room. this is why so many PSN players suck at this game. they don't like getting beat. if they do they won't stay to try and better themselves. which is stupid if they like to win then why not face people better than you so you can get better?
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You should invite me to a lobby then.
 
HajinShinobi said:
What are you implying?
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er, well. I figured that if you needed a challenge you should raise the people around you. It's... uh... player grooming? (Ew, should I use that term?)


as for the rest, I mean... if you started telling people "here it comes, throw punish this" and they didn't (like they weren't fast enough or something), around the fifth time you did that that would be... pretty mean.

Hm, did I just come up with an Alex J?
 
DrakeAldan said:
er, well. I figured that if you needed a challenge you should raise the people around you. It's... uh... player grooming? (Ew, should I use that term?)


as for the rest, I mean... if you started telling people "here it comes, throw punish this" and they didn't (like they weren't fast enough or something), around the fifth time you did that that would be... pretty mean.

Hm, did I just come up with an Alex J?
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I see, that is actually what I and Air Gear try to do (I actually give Air Gear more tips since I am a lot more knowledgeable than he is in DOA). Players are usually always asking something if they have any questions or I advise them on something if I am noticing anything. Sometimes though, you don't always have much time to cater to everyone (at least not at WNF as much because of limited time but I do what I can, when I can). At our local casual gatherings, I can cater to anyone that wants advice and can play them as long as they want.

Whenever I notice things, I'll tell them and how they can deal with something, or what they can try to work on. Some players just want to play though, and that is fine too. No one in SoCal is particularly slow on anything, some are just novices or new to the game (not new to FGs, just DOA). So if they get hit by something the first or second time, they don't fall for the same thing again. Which is what I like, because they are learning (and adapting).

But if they are, then I don't keep them in the dark about it, I believe giving false information or not helping players grow is quite shallow. Meanwhile, others are decent or are pretty damn good. Either way, everyone can improve somewhere (that includes myself, I am very good but not high level, "yet").

I get to travel locally and even to Norcal for DOA (Texas and East Coast in the future, can't afford those right now). So I get to be somewhat of a teacher offline as well as I am online, too.
 
Kokoro thoughts and discoveries...

It may have already been spotted, but Kokoro's 7K is now 18 instead of 17 frames.

Kokoro's fastest and strongest launcher is now 46P, good luck getting this off due to the tight window on 46 inputs. With that said, a simple stun launch combo using 46P can easily get to 60-80 damage. 46P is 17 frames with 25 damage. P+K, 4P+K, 7K and 33P+K all do less damage and activate much more slowly. 33P and 22P no longer launch on stun.

4PP is +2 on hit. Keep in mind this is a pretty slow high, but it has better range than standing P and its now Kokoro's only natural combo on neutral and stun.

Compared to another stun-launch combo character like Momiji, Kokoro has better flow and mix-ups, but tends to get less or about the same reward as Momiji does. While Kokoro can get red critical much more quickly than Momiji could, Kokoro lacks options for different critical bursts. Considering that several characters that have fewer high-mid-low mix-ups (Rig) or even better mix-up potential (Ayane and Helena) now have two or more critical burst options, it really hurts that Kokoro doesn't have similar options for this, despite her very limited back-turned and Heichu options.

Further, it is hard to say what exactly Team Ninja wants to do with Kokoro, do they want to make her half-grappler? If so, then her throw options need to be better or guarantee something like Brad's or Helena's do (especially since these two are strikers). If they want her to be an aggressive pit-bull character like Akira, then her options for breaking down guards (3PT, PPT, 33PT, 66P+KT, P2KT, 7PKT, 236P+KT, 1PT and more) need to be a lot better at doing this. If they want Kokoro to be a striker that focuses on mix-ups, then they need to give her something else besides variants of the same three strings, from PK, 3K, 1KK, P2KP, 4PK, 7PK BT 4PK, because that's all she's got. Those variants on the same exact moves are found all over her move list and this doesn't help her create any sort of mix-up threat or otherwise.

Conjecture: Seeing as how DoA4 was rushed to market for Xbox 360's release and it was practically Itagaki's last game, I speculate that Kokoro was the last character to be developed, given that Lisa had appeared in an earlier spin-off (and her move list was already locked in). Outside of Eliot, I don't see any character like Kokoro being stuck with such a heavily recycled move-list and series of animations. Kokoro has changed the least (outside of Ein, but does he really count?) between DOA4 and DOA5U. As a character, Kokoro has an array of options; more throws than the typical striker character; one of the few characters than can strike in four different ways through PK (High, Mid Punch, Mid Kick, Low) and she happens to be one of the few characters in the game with two sabakis. A lot of this sounds good on paper, and should more than make up for her weaknesses to step, but it doesn't. It's because too many of Kokoro's options are barely worth using and provide so little threat and so little guarantee that the risk is often too great for the reward. While she can certainly compete, and she's probably still better off that some characters in Ultimate, I don't think her overall perception and her current status as a low-mid to low tier character isn't going to change much. Buffing her damage isn't really going to help or address the issues she has, but I think she needs more than what she's got right now if players want to take notice of her or use her more often in tournaments.
 
i'm done with DOA online for a while. mostly all bad players. and the few that actually know what they're doing, they leave after losing. if it weren't for me being near an offline scene i would have probably dropped this game a little bit ago.
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
i'm done with DOA online for a while. mostly all bad players. and the few that actually know what they're doing, they leave after losing. if it weren't for me being near an offline scene i would have probably dropped this game a little bit ago.
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Yeah, because I would have slapped dem side burns off ya if you did drop this game. >:3
 
Getting a better feel for Akira and I'm able to use him and switch it up to Kokoro as I need to. I don't feel like I have to radically shift gears or alter my mind set playing between the two now in tag teams. Its working quite well, however, the moves I use for Akira are still extremely limited. I'd like to use more H+KP or 214P and others, but I'm not certain how I can apply this yet. Most of my Akira players are pretty straight forward stun-launch combo with TDLC.

As for Bayman, I'm not certain what to poke with. 4P+K and 3P are about it. I'm not really sure what's good option for stunning as I'm mostly working with what Rikuto advised me. I'd like to expand back into the strings and attacks I've normally used before, but this limited moves usage has given me a few things to think about.

I am still at a loss at what each of the OHs are supposed to go through. In addition, I'm not sure which ones I should use more often. It can be hard to get a good tell on my opponent in a post stun situation and the lack of knowledge about which OH does what is hurting. More annoying is being able to predict low hold players who'd rather whiff low holds than slow escape or properly block. Many of them have eaten a 236K, but it doesn't feel like its forcing them to think about what they're doing yet.
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
i'm done with DOA online for a while. mostly all bad players. and the few that actually know what they're doing, they leave after losing. if it weren't for me being near an offline scene i would have probably dropped this game a little bit ago.
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Have you thought of the possibility that majority of the players on PSN don't have any kind of offline scene to train in? It's no surprise that the overall level of skill would be low or appear low. You have a big advantage over them. Online lag also compounds the issue further because it screws up one's flow and interferes with combo timing. There are some good players on PSN, they just need to be seeked out. For me, to ensure that "lesser-skilled players" don't leave immediately after losing, I always show respect (i.e. refrain from overkilling, taunting, etc.). However I do have a pet-peeve for people who choose ALPHA or a male ninja on the Dojo stage. It ironically benefits my character but is still annoying.

On the otherhand, I do shake my head at players that clearly have not even touched any aspect of the tutorial and just immediately hop online and mindlessly mash buttons or spam gimmicks with Hayabusa, Kasumi, Hayate or Ayane while obviously omitting to set a Guard button. Some people do try to play the game properly but without an offline scene or knowledge of FG's sites such as FSD people will be bound to struggle against someone that knows what they're doing. But then again, some people would rather smash their face into their controllers and call it a day.

Windstar said:
I am still at a loss at what each of the OHs are supposed to go through. In addition, I'm not sure which ones I should use more often. It can be hard to get a good tell on my opponent in a post stun situation and the lack of knowledge about which OH does what is hurting. More annoying is being able to predict low hold players who'd rather whiff low holds than slow escape or properly block. Many of them have eaten a 236K, but it doesn't feel like its forcing them to think about what they're doing yet.
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High OH's go through all strikes including one's with high-crush capabilities, but can still lose to TCing lows. You can throw them out pretty much any time you have the opponent on the defensive such as LeiFang + Run-up 66T -_-. As for the opponents spamming low holds or getting hit by 236K, why do you care if they keep getting hit by 236K? If they keep getting hit by it, it means it's working and it's they're job to adapt to it. Have you still been fighting sucky players -_-?
 
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Force_of_Nature said:
Have you thought of the possibility that majority of the players on PSN don't have any kind of offline scene to train in? It's no surprise that the overall level of skill would be low or appear low. You have a big advantage over them. Online lag also compounds the issue further because it screws up one's flow and interferes with combo timing. There are some good players on PSN, they just need to be seeked out. For me, to ensure that "lesser-skilled players" don't leave immediately after losing, I always show respect (i.e. refrain from overkilling, taunting, etc.). However I do have a pet-peeve for people who choose ALPHA or a male ninja on the Dojo stage. It ironically benefits my character but is still annoying.

On the otherhand, I do shake my head at players that clearly have not even touched any aspect of the tutorial and just immediately hop online and mindlessly mash buttons or spam gimmicks with Hayabusa, Kasumi, Hayate or Ayane while obviously omitting to set a Guard button. Some people do try to play the game properly but without an offline scene or knowledge of FG's sites such as FSD people will be bound to struggle against someone that knows what they're doing. But then again, some people would rather smash their face into their controllers and call it a day.



High OH's go through all strikes including one's with high-crush capabilities, but can still lose to TCing lows. You can throw them out pretty much any time you have the opponent on the defensive such as LeiFang + Run-up 66T -_-. As for the opponents spamming low holds or getting hit by 236K, why do you care if they keep getting hit by 236K? If they keep getting hit by it, it means its working and it's they're job to adapt to it. Have you still been fighting sucky players -_-?
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Titan do you play on Xbox Live DOA5 more or on PSN? I don't know how it plays on PSN, but on Xbox it usually plays pretty smooth, it doesn't have input delay lag, but it can lag spike REALLY badly, sometimes the game will freeze up or stop during a combo, and any inputs you pressed during that 1 second lag spike will just drop your combo... That's usually what I run into.. =P
 
Force_of_Nature said:
Have you thought of the possibility that majority of the players on PSN don't have any kind of offline scene to train in? It's no surprise that the overall level of skill would be low or appear low. You have a big advantage over them. Online lag also compounds the issue further because it screws up one's flow and interferes with combo timing. There are some good players on PSN, they just need to be seeked out. For me, to ensure that "lesser-skilled players" don't leave immediately after losing, I always show respect (i.e. refrain from overkilling, taunting, etc.). However I do have a pet-peeve for people who choose ALPHA or a male ninja on the Dojo stage. It ironically benefits my character but is still annoying.

On the otherhand, I do shake my head at players that clearly have not even touched any aspect of the tutorial and just immediately hop online and mindlessly mash buttons or spam gimmicks with Hayabusa, Kasumi, Hayate or Ayane while obviously omitting to set a Guard button. Some people do try to play the game properly but without an offline scene or knowledge of FG's sites such as FSD people will be bound to struggle against someone that knows what they're doing. But then again, some people would rather smash their face into their controllers and call it a day.
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Yo, I hit you with gimmicks with Hayabusa ._.
 
Force_of_Nature said:
Have you thought of the possibility that majority of the players on PSN don't have any kind of offline scene to train in? It's no surprise that the overall level of skill would be low or appear low. You have a big advantage over them. Online lag also compounds the issue further because it screws up one's flow and interferes with combo timing. There are some good players on PSN, they just need to be seeked out. For me, to ensure that "lesser-skilled players" don't leave immediately after losing, I always show respect (i.e. refrain from overkilling, taunting, etc.). However I do have a pet-peeve for people who choose ALPHA or a male ninja on the Dojo stage. It ironically benefits my character but is still annoying.

On the otherhand, I do shake my head at players that clearly have not even touched any aspect of the tutorial and just immediately hop online and mindlessly mash buttons or spam gimmicks with Hayabusa, Kasumi, Hayate or Ayane while obviously omitting to set a Guard button. Some people do try to play the game properly but without an offline scene or knowledge of FG's sites such as FSD people will be bound to struggle against someone that knows what they're doing. But then again, some people would rather smash their face into their controllers and call it a day.
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it's rarely a lag issue because i mostly stick with fighting 4+ bars. people just don't like losing if they do understand the game on any level. and the people that i fight often are people that just mash buttons or constantly go on auto pilot with only 1 or 2 setups. if those don't work they're screwed. 3 times last night i went into full rooms and cleared them all out. that's 8+ people that are giving up because they aren't winning. they don't even try to adapt either. this is why i do terribly at tourneys because this is the majority of any type of practice i'm getting. when i show up to tournaments it's normally right after my 8 hour shift at work and i haven't touched DOA in over 24 hours. all i have to rely on is the last practice i've had and that isn't anything near the skill level i have to face at the tournament. the only solid practice buddy i can find on occasion is my friend that mains Sarah, gen fu, Akira, and hayabusa. but i don't see him often either.
 
Ishimaru Jinrai said:
Titan do you play on Xbox Live DOA5 more or on PSN? I don't know how it plays on PSN, but on Xbox it usually plays pretty smooth, it doesn't have input delay lag, but it can lag spike REALLY badly, sometimes the game will freeze up or stop during a combo, and any inputs you pressed during that 1 second lag spike will just drop your combo... That's usually what I run into.. =P
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I play DOA5U on PSN. I only have Vanilla on XBL. I still need to get 5U for 360. It unfortunately lags a bit on PSN, but don't run into problems when fighting 5 bars or most 4 bars (I mean "real" 5 bars, not the 5 bars, then 2 bars during the match). The Core Fighters F2P has also heavily increased the PSN scrub count tenfold. Any lagswitchers on this game on the 360?

Kaibro said:
Yo, I hit you with gimmicks with Hayabusa ._.
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Hey don't think I haven't scummed you with a few Ayane gimmicks bro! ;) BTW, use your LeiFang more.

0VincentRayne0 said:
it's rarely a lag issue because i mostly stick with fighting 4+ bars. people just don't like losing if they do understand the game on any level. and the people that i fight often are people that just mash buttons or constantly go on auto pilot with only 1 or 2 setups. if those don't work they're screwed. 3 times last night i went into full rooms and cleared them all out. that's 8+ people that are giving up because they aren't winning. they don't even try to adapt either. this is why i do terribly at tourneys because this is the majority of any type of practice i'm getting. when i show up to tournaments it's normally right after my 8 hour shift at work and i haven't touched DOA in over 24 hours. all i have to rely on is the last practice i've had and that isn't anything near the skill level i have to face at the tournament. the only solid practice buddy i can find on occasion is my friend that mains Sarah, gen fu, Akira, and hayabusa. but i don't see him often either.
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Don't worry dude, the "practise" I get online is inconsequential most of the time thanks to the near non-existent punishment. Do you beat your opponents too hard when you fight them? No one likes a "Try-Hard"! I play an annoying as hell character so I try to play as fundamentally as I can if the latency allows. An issue may also be that people don't like to wait around in 8+ man rooms. If you can, try to only face competent players, it helps alleviate the "scrub" problem.
 
Force_of_Nature said:
Don't worry dude, the "practise" I get online is inconsequential most of the time thanks to the near non-existent punishment. Do you beat your opponents too hard when you fight them? No one likes a "Try-Hard"! I play an annoying as hell character so I try to play as fundamentally as I can if the latency allows. An issue may also be that people don't like to wait around in 8+ man rooms. If you can, try to only face competent players, it helps alleviate the "scrub" problem.
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well, i understand the waiting thing but the fact is i don't like waiting that long either. so i go to rooms that are 3 or 4 people at max. so i know them waiting isn't an issue. and of course i play hard. i won't learn anything otherwise and don't want to set myself up with bad habits by doing dumb things online. and if people don't like "try-hards" then they shouldn't be playing a competitive game. and by competitive i mean there being a winner and a loser.
 
Force_of_Nature said:
Don't worry dude, the "practise" I get online is inconsequential most of the time thanks to the near non-existent punishment. Do you beat your opponents too hard when you fight them? No one likes a "Try-Hard"! I play an annoying as hell character so I try to play as fundamentally as I can if the latency allows. An issue may also be that people don't like to wait around in 8+ man rooms. If you can, try to only face competent players, it helps alleviate the "scrub" problem.
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Honestly, I can't play Ayane online because latency prevents a lot of planning and precision. So I just play Genfu online lulz. >:3
 
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