KaiBro
[10] Knight
I would use Lei-Fang if I could do more than just whiff punish with 66p and 46p :/
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
- Thread starter UNDERX
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Ishimaru Jinrai
[12] Conqueror
Oh yeah you're right I forgot about Core Fighters for PSN, well at least it makes the game more populated. And as far as "lag switchers" on Xbox there are only a few, but I think it's mainly due to bad netcode. It's not unplayable and runs smoothly mostly, but sometimes it spikes and you lose your inputs. (Sort of like the whole game just slows waaaaay down.. then goes back to normal speed.)
It'll be amazing when next gen console is going to have dedicated servers, hopefully people with high ping won't ruin battles.. xD
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
That's cruel dude =(.
I played a set with a decent GenFu this evening and the MU is so ridiculous. It's a pretty much a game of "Get out of my face you dirty old man!" GenFu essentially has no reason to not stay in your face 100% of the time. Though, I am tempted to take up the old fart so for everyone that claims that Ayane is irritating, they can get GenFu'ed! > : )
0VincentRayne0
Faith
if you pick up gen fu then i will be very disappointed in you. i mean, i get it if you want to win but gen fu winning now just make people shrug. no one is hyped to watch him play, no one is really upset that he beats them because there's nothing to really learn from it besides, "i guessed wrong too many times." i mean if you want to play the game with your face against the controller then gen fu is the person to do it with.
HajinShinobi
[09] Warrior
LOL!
I play Genfu because I'm just very fond of the character. He is uniquely different than Ayane in the sense that their game design are opposities. One loves range, the other loves CQC. Playing both characters has allowed me to play patiently AND comfortably enough in both ranges, for both characters.
When I'm at a distance with Ayane, I'm totally fine as my spacing, my footsies. my fundamentals, and control of my character are all solid. I have the same feel when I play Genfu, and by knowing so much of their tools, I can play either of them wherever and however I feel.
Because I've played Ayane for so long (and watching A LOT of SSF4 tournament play), my footsies are very good. So is my patience, so I apply that to Genfu as well (I mean you can do this with any character as basic fundamentals are a universal sort of thing) so I don't feel like that I'm stuck with just a 66P or 214P approach with him. I just play patiently and see how soon my opponent decides to press a button when they approach, since I'm not scared of anything at a distance.
I feel extremely comfortable playing both Ayane and Genfu, so I find them both to be interchangeable for me, especially since both characters are very good and I have a high understanding of them. I just hate mirror matches (but who doesn't lol?).
I play Genfu because I'm just very fond of the character. He is uniquely different than Ayane in the sense that their game design are opposities. One loves range, the other loves CQC. Playing both characters has allowed me to play patiently AND comfortably enough in both ranges, for both characters.
When I'm at a distance with Ayane, I'm totally fine as my spacing, my footsies. my fundamentals, and control of my character are all solid. I have the same feel when I play Genfu, and by knowing so much of their tools, I can play either of them wherever and however I feel.
Because I've played Ayane for so long (and watching A LOT of SSF4 tournament play), my footsies are very good. So is my patience, so I apply that to Genfu as well (I mean you can do this with any character as basic fundamentals are a universal sort of thing) so I don't feel like that I'm stuck with just a 66P or 214P approach with him. I just play patiently and see how soon my opponent decides to press a button when they approach, since I'm not scared of anything at a distance.
I feel extremely comfortable playing both Ayane and Genfu, so I find them both to be interchangeable for me, especially since both characters are very good and I have a high understanding of them. I just hate mirror matches (but who doesn't lol?).
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Whoa, waitaminute, does this mean that you hate GenFu more than Ayane? There's actually a character you hate more than AYANE?! =O
GenFu does seem to provide some entertainment value though, he's like a walking blender lol. He also looks pretty swag in his Hawaiian shirt.
Amanda
[12] Conqueror
Dont know if this was posted(if yeah then sry bout that)
The Official JP Tier List...dont know either if its legit..
S: Kokoro, Hitomi, Mila, Rachel
A+: Kasumi, Hayate, Hayabusa, Momiji, Christie, Rig, Sarah, Helena
A: Gen Fu, Lei Fang, Bayman, Jann Lee
B: Tina, Bass, Eliot, Lisa, Leon, Jacky, Pai, Ayane, Brad, Zack
C: Ein, Alpha-152
(just curious about the incoming opinions)
The Official JP Tier List...dont know either if its legit..
S: Kokoro, Hitomi, Mila, Rachel
A+: Kasumi, Hayate, Hayabusa, Momiji, Christie, Rig, Sarah, Helena
A: Gen Fu, Lei Fang, Bayman, Jann Lee
B: Tina, Bass, Eliot, Lisa, Leon, Jacky, Pai, Ayane, Brad, Zack
C: Ein, Alpha-152
(just curious about the incoming opinions)
HajinShinobi
[09] Warrior
Yeah that list is kind of old news now, and it is definitely not legit either.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
It's quite laughable really from a Western perspective but it is quite reflective of the difference in playstyle between Japanese players and Western players.
After 1.03, I doubt that Rachel's going to be anywhere near top tier, though can still be a very dangerous character. Kokoro, and Hitomi are generally considered low to mid-tier (poor Kokoro, stop overrating her Japanese players!). Unsure how good Mila is but I doubt that she's top tier material, maybe A or A+. The A+ tier seems ok-ish, but Hayate & Hayabusa are a bit overrated and pleasantly surprised to see Rig high. The dude is sick! A tier seems about right but I'd bump GenFu to S.
B tier is kinda Lol. Jacky, Pai and Ayane are A+ material, how the hell did they end up here? The only way that Ayane is B tier is if you try to play her like a rushdown character. Ah well, all it does is increase the chances of Ayane getting buffed xD. 3H+K reverted back to DOA5 Vanilla status Team Ninja kthx =P! C tier is even more Lol. Alpha-152 in bottom tier? Really? Can't really judge Ein yet but I doubt he's bottom tier when compared to some of the B tiers.
I'm still waiting for some of that JP Kokoro tech though. I want to see what an S tier Kokoro looks like (offline, not online). The ability to sidestep should automatically knock her down to B tier.
By the end of the year, we should have a better reflection of where the characters stand.
Windstar
[13] Hero
Where did you get this?
The last time I checked, most Japanese players felt that Sarah and Christie were the dominant two characters and everyone fell pretty much below them. In fact, I think most US players would agree.
As far as the VF characters were concerned, Pai and Akira were placed in the same bracket (some felt that Akira was worse off, though) and Jacky's position was disputed. The big reasons for Jacky were his lack of combo damage and no easy way to slam a character (ie Jacky couldn't stop a character from tech rolling). They feel (like Pai) that his damage is too low.
Its weird that this list you posted doesn't have Akira listed anywhere on these tiers.
Its also weird that Hitomi and Kokoro are rated so highly, last I checked, Japanese players didn't like Hitomi's new moves because they were easy to hold. I do remember them rating Kokoro pretty high initially, but I thought that changed after a couple weeks when they learned about the other stuff the characters got.
I do know that they rated Rig pretty highly in the original (and I think they still do), and they liked Hayabusa a lot because Izuna Drop was really easy to set up. I think they like Hayate now for the same reasons. I know they never really ranked or rated Ayane very highly (something to do with unsafe and too readable, or her abare was bad). They did think Kasumi was really good though, particularly because stance guard breaks and her tracking were all pretty exceptional.
I'll see if I can find some videos of Japanese Kokoro and Hitomi play and see if they've got some amazing tech that explains something we aren't seeing. Are we sure this isn't a tier list for tag teams?
HajinShinobi
[09] Warrior
A character like Ayane is indeed considered somewhere in S to A+ because;
1) She has favorable and fair match ups across the board.
2) She has only one bad match up in DOA5/DOA5U, and that is Genfu.
3) She plays with DOA's ruleset "correctly." This means that all of her defensive holds work well anywhere and on any stage, dealing either high damage with electric floors and walls. Or insanely high damage with a ceiling from holding low punches (happens often) or mid kicks. Except for her regular mid kick hold, that is medicore.
4) She has a high damage output.
5) She has solid stun > launch mix ups that avoid much use of the stun threshold. This character is getting 60-90 damage on average through stun > launch and counter hits without the use of the threshold all too often.
6) She has a very solid mix up on block and in Critical stun.
7) Very good array of high crushes, frame traps, and single pokes both in CQC and range.
8) Her tools for getting in or inching in are all rather safe and have follow ups. Most of this game's cast doesn't even have either of these on specific moves that are more or less driven towards getting in.
9) She's one of the few characters that have very solid range and keep out tools AND a solid CQC game. Most chararcters excel at one or the other.
10) Her throws are very good, both of her i7 throws do exactly what they need to do. Which is throwing opponents "away" from her, so she gets back into her Comfort Zone. Her i10 and one of her i12 throws do the same job.
11) i10/i13/i12 is great speed for a character with an array of high crushes, strong neutral game and solid at punishment (whiff and throw).
12) 3H+K being -3 on block only means she lost "one" frame trap. The bound isn't really a big deal as she can still get decent damage. 3H+K is still very good for keep out, getting in, offensive and defensive pressure and whiff punishment.
13) The character NOW has access to Korean Back Dashing, I'm not exactly sure but people probably don't realize how huge of a buff that really is for her. Coupled with P4P keep out, speaking of which...
14) P4P is her newest short string and it is very VERY good and very VERY safe. The range this move has is ridiculously good, as she's able to get counter hits off of it at max range and scores a solid 50/50 because a BT6P is guaranteed even if you stagger escape P4P's stun. P4P is all too versatile in CQC and at range.
15) She has purple hair, and that is godlike. DON'T DENY DA PURP! :3
1) She has favorable and fair match ups across the board.
2) She has only one bad match up in DOA5/DOA5U, and that is Genfu.
3) She plays with DOA's ruleset "correctly." This means that all of her defensive holds work well anywhere and on any stage, dealing either high damage with electric floors and walls. Or insanely high damage with a ceiling from holding low punches (happens often) or mid kicks. Except for her regular mid kick hold, that is medicore.
4) She has a high damage output.
5) She has solid stun > launch mix ups that avoid much use of the stun threshold. This character is getting 60-90 damage on average through stun > launch and counter hits without the use of the threshold all too often.
6) She has a very solid mix up on block and in Critical stun.
7) Very good array of high crushes, frame traps, and single pokes both in CQC and range.
8) Her tools for getting in or inching in are all rather safe and have follow ups. Most of this game's cast doesn't even have either of these on specific moves that are more or less driven towards getting in.
9) She's one of the few characters that have very solid range and keep out tools AND a solid CQC game. Most chararcters excel at one or the other.
10) Her throws are very good, both of her i7 throws do exactly what they need to do. Which is throwing opponents "away" from her, so she gets back into her Comfort Zone. Her i10 and one of her i12 throws do the same job.
11) i10/i13/i12 is great speed for a character with an array of high crushes, strong neutral game and solid at punishment (whiff and throw).
12) 3H+K being -3 on block only means she lost "one" frame trap. The bound isn't really a big deal as she can still get decent damage. 3H+K is still very good for keep out, getting in, offensive and defensive pressure and whiff punishment.
13) The character NOW has access to Korean Back Dashing, I'm not exactly sure but people probably don't realize how huge of a buff that really is for her. Coupled with P4P keep out, speaking of which...
14) P4P is her newest short string and it is very VERY good and very VERY safe. The range this move has is ridiculously good, as she's able to get counter hits off of it at max range and scores a solid 50/50 because a BT6P is guaranteed even if you stagger escape P4P's stun. P4P is all too versatile in CQC and at range.
15) She has purple hair, and that is godlike. DON'T DENY DA PURP! :3
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Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
#TeamPurple!
0VincentRayne0
Faith
#TeamBadPersonality
Windstar
[13] Hero
Okay, so I can see why they consider Hitomi really high tier now...
Still not convinced on Kokoro, yet, they do love her 7P...
From what I saw, they love Hitomi's 6T.
A lot of her strings are natural 2-hits in stun.
Big combo damage. Main one I saw, pre or post CB 9K launch, 4KK, PP4PPP Easily did about 40 to 60% health after stun setups.
Not much focus on wall-damage, believe it or not.
They really liked her 46P, 46K, punch parry and advanced kick hold.
Overall they seem to focus on her guesswork during stun periods. And they play pretty aggressively with Hitomi.
I'll post the links up in a second... everyone here knows how to use Niconico douga, right?
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21908881?ref=search_key_video
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21820212?ref=search_key_video
Still not convinced on Kokoro, yet, they do love her 7P...
From what I saw, they love Hitomi's 6T.
A lot of her strings are natural 2-hits in stun.
Big combo damage. Main one I saw, pre or post CB 9K launch, 4KK, PP4PPP Easily did about 40 to 60% health after stun setups.
Not much focus on wall-damage, believe it or not.
They really liked her 46P, 46K, punch parry and advanced kick hold.
Overall they seem to focus on her guesswork during stun periods. And they play pretty aggressively with Hitomi.
I'll post the links up in a second... everyone here knows how to use Niconico douga, right?
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21908881?ref=search_key_video
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21820212?ref=search_key_video
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0VincentRayne0
Faith
i can see why hitomi could be good. but all i wanna see is some god like Kokoro action. since she's mission so much that other characters have (like guaranteed setups) then this is why i'm so damn interested to see.
HajinShinobi
[09] Warrior
Lot's of questionable and simplistic play from Hitomi. 6PK cancels getting wins often means players probably have no idea what's going on. Hitomi's 6T has always been good and mix up heavy for her. But stuff like 6PK and 6T doesn't justify the character being amazing. Hitomi is solid but there a lot of reasons why.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Hitomi is a pretty solid character. Very well-rounded, excellent movement, whiff punishers, great pressure game and stun mix-ups. You can't go wrong with her and she is quite reliable. You do need to guess quite well with her though to stay on the offensive. I'd say that she's at least A tier.
d3v
[10] Knight
This alone should tell you everything about why she's high/top in the game. Everything else just contributes to this.
HajinShinobi
[09] Warrior
*Giggles*
Project Bokuho
[14] Master
Who here registered for Dead or Alive in Dallas 9? It's in a couple of weeks, so we need as many players as possible.