Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Amanda said:
Oh and one more thing..i hope...no i wish that "THIS!" is never gonna happen in a DOA Tournament....
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LOL Collusion in the FGC...... xDDD what's the point?

Bah... I'm just going to go to an Anime convention with friends, win a game tournament and win my free shirt!!
 
ew. jinrai must be here. but collusion is dumb. the farthest i've gone with it at a tournament was say "hey, let's have a mirror match." and the mirror match was with our former mains. the match wasn't able to be done anyway and i went to my current main Mila instead of Kokoro. but the form of collusion described here is a lot different. these guys didn't seem to care about the competitive aspect of the game nor for the many people watching and looking forward to a grand finals match. i like hype matches. i like the energy the commentators and the crowd give off. i love the focus the players are giving when they are trying to both win a prize only one of them can have. and i'd hate for that to be ruined to dumb stuff like collusion.
 
Honestly, I don't hate the notion of collusion, given how it's described, but if you playing in the grand finals, you need to f**king play at your best. No one's going to appreciate whatever effort you already made, and the organizers will make you hurt for it. Once the money's in your hands, do what you want. Until then, get your shit together and put on your best show.

(Yeah, I'm more offended by the 'match-throwing' than the collusion itself. Call me crazy.)
 
There are quite a few things I don't agree with about the notion of collusion in the FGC.

1. Most fighting game players are not being paid to play. They are paying out of pocket to go to these things. Playing in the FGC is not a job. If I or anyone else choose to fuck around in a tournament, it's my business. I mean, what if a player decides (as happens a lot, especially with alcohol) to not play in a tournament? What if they stay and up party and then play like shit the next day? Should they be punished? Regardless of what anyone may think, these streams are NOT for the spectators; the spectators are NOT paying the players to play. If you're going to make the clause that every player 'play at their best', then you need to be paying those players to play. While you're at it, you might as well ban 'unwinnable' matchups and lowtier characters.

2. Fighting games are not like poker, where players can cheat against the table. True enough, a players can say, while, you'll probably beat *y*, so I'll send you to losers and then you play *y*, but, at that point, it's between y and z to play it out. These players are not rigging the brackets or anything like that.

3. In the particular case cited, the two players were brothers who were more than likely going to split the money regardless of who won. They said, 'If we get to grandfinals, we're going to have fun plays Izayoi mirrors'--that's THEIR CHOICE! With all of that understanding, you have to realize that THEY BEAT EVERYONE ELSE! Like I said, until people are actively paying everyone who competes and these players aren't paying to play, these tournaments ARE NOT SPECTATOR SPORTS and the players HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO THE PEOPLE WATCHING.

With that said, I can still understand that people want a show regardless of if players decide to split or not and I agree that it should be done for the good of the community. Still, unless the players shouldn't feel obligated to play a certain way unless they want to.

I should also note, for those who didn't know, that the TO only took the pot bonus that he had put in himself and gave it to third place. While I don't agree with that, it's understandable.

EDIT: I should note that, in case of poker, the players are cheating the table and probably wouldn't have won (have far less of a chance of winning) if it weren't for their cheating. In the FGC, you can 'collude' vs. one player but there's no guarantee that you'll beat the next.
 
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This is the only time I've actually seen an incident like this brought to the light. Does collusion happen all the time in the FGC or is it in rare instances?
 
I imagine it happens a lot more than people are willing to admit. But, that's the thing...half the time, we probably don't even know when it's happening.
 
ZOo00OOm said:
This is the only time I've actually seen an incident like this brought to the light. Does collusion happen all the time in the FGC or is it in rare instances?
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It happens...but nobody talks about it ....ehm like Fight Club or 4Chan...nuff said.
Dont wanna go into some details...not in public...
 
Amanda said:
It happens...but nobody talks about it ....ehm like Fight Club or 4Chan...nuff said.
Dont wanna go into some details...not in public...
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And definitely not into detail about 4Chan.
For Fight Club, the first rule about Fight Club is to not talk about it.
 
Yes, BUT they are typically using the organizer's resources to do this, especially on live streams. It's not the cheapest or easiest thing to set up. A lot of the tournament itself comes out of the organizer's pocket.

Viewers came for an asskicking GF, they get a casual match. Natural offense, but they didn't pay for the event.

Other competitors want to see the top 2 go at it just they might have themselves, and get a casual match? Again, natural offense, except they paid to attend a tournament, not a casual, and their money is now going to them.

The organizer takes time out of their life to plan the tournament, devoting their time and resources to make the whole thing happen, maybe even putting their own money into the pot, and supervise it all just to see the last two guys dicking around, wasting his bandwidth, energy, and overall effort on a casual final? Lord have mercy upon their souls. They actually have a right to be pissed.
 
Xernuht said:
Yes, BUT they are typically using the organizer's resources to do this, especially on live streams. It's not the cheapest or easiest thing to set up. A lot of the tournament itself comes out of the organizer's pocket.

Viewers came for an asskicking GF, they get a casual match. Natural offense, but they didn't pay for the event.

Other competitors want to see the top 2 go at it just they might have themselves, and get a casual match? Again, natural offense, except they paid to attend a tournament, not a casual, and their money is now going to them.

The organizer takes time out of their life to plan the tournament, devoting their time and resources to make the whole thing happen, maybe even putting their own money into the pot, and supervise it all just to see the last two guys dicking around, wasting his bandwidth, energy, and overall effort on a casual final? Lord have mercy upon their souls. They actually have a right to be pissed.
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TOs charge a venue fee most of the time to cover fees (nevermind the fact that most big events take on volunteers, get sponsors, and TOs actually MAKE money off of these events). If they lose out, it's the cost of doing business. Like it or not, the players have no obligation to play. If I join a tournament, get to top 8, then decide I'd rather go to Chili's or some shit instead of playing, I can't and shouldn't be reprimanded. The players are paying to participate--not to win, not to try their best, and definitely not to entertain some people who aren't paying. A stream has nothing to do with the players (and that's what most people seem to forget; there are many instances where natches don't go down or people mess around but they aren't looked so badly upon because the 'viewers' are satisfied). Like I said, it'd be different if the players were being paid to play and the money wasn't coming out of their pockets.

Like I said, if you want competitors 'playing their absolute best', there's a lot more rules that need to be made and more than most people are willing to PAY to do.

I will also state, once again, while I am indifferent towards 'collusion' (it seems to be a blanket word for a bunch of things right now), regardless of whether or not players split the pot, I do think they should put on a good show. Now, whether or not them picking a character their 'known' for constitutes a good show is another thing (and, there, you have, even MORE rules that would have to be spelled out. If a player picks another character, as was the case of the two brothers in question, does that constitute them not trying their 'hardest' and thus 'collusion'?). I routinely play different characters in SC tournaments and may win or lose and really don't care either way--should I be punished for that?

With that same, we're taking up a bunch of space and should move this discussion elsewhere.
 
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LostProvidence said:
2. Fighting games are not like poker, where players can cheat against the table. True enough, a players can say, while, you'll probably beat *y*, so I'll send you to losers and then you play *y*, but, at that point, it's between y and z to play it out. These players are not rigging the brackets or anything like that.
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Yeah collusion only works if you're badass enough to get up to the finals... There's no guarantee you'll make it to the finals, in which case if you're that good you sort of deserve the money by default. Even despite if you just screw around in the grand Finals...

IMO it's just butt hurt spectators who feel they are entitled to seeing a big finish. As long as I saw great gameplay from the tournament I'm happy... Not like I'm going to see the stream and say "OMG NO!! I'll never know who truly should have won Winter Duel 46 Skull Girls division because those two players just screwed around!!" Lol, not like I'm paying an entry fee to be entertained... xD
 
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