Discussion about Just Guard

[Syn_SC]

This is Jaguar-King like levels of misinformation.

JG everything, just like you can "duck electrics on reaction"

Idle, I missed you. ^_^

 

[Wandrian]

This is Jaguar-King like levels of misinformation.

JG everything, just like you can "duck electrics on reaction"

Lemme get this straight. Garj is saying "any one of us can JG some things on prediction without risk by inputting g(G) any time we have a wide enough window to JG and block." You're saying "no, you can't. Because I said so." Am I missing anything here?

 

[LP]

I stopped reading a long time ago. If, in the face of not only true but also tested things you stand by idiocy, it's not worth the time.

When you start judging things by unreal standards, by the theoretical rather than the practical while all at the same time calling it practical in a case like this, you're simply doing so to be hardheaded. You're not being smart, you're not being cute, you're not even being funny -- you're being a fuckin' idiot. If all the while you're saying something can be practical but can't submit to your own test of practicability then you probably shouldn't

Not only but, with people who have played the game at a high level or at least have a better understanding of the game than you telling you why, even if every could perform to the level you're speaking of, it wouldn't be anywhere near as game-breaking as you believe it would, I honestly don't even know why this argument is still being had. The argument of that one guy has been broken down, and then he regurgitated it a different way. No how you dress up your words, they'll be just as wrong for the same reasons...because they're bad arguments and bad logic.


You know what I just thought about? This along with tier-discussion. In theory, every character can win just as much as every other character, every round can go down to a draw, or every round can result in a perfect. Hell, in theory, a character could never win...or always win...or win some and lose some. Lol. I feel like I just went into quantum mechanics in regards to an argument for fighting games. Either way, I hope you all are not those same people who like bitch about balance and all that jazz. Of course, I realize that we're talking about possibilities here but I'm just trying to show how funny this whole thing is.

 

[IdleMind]

Lemme get this straight. Garj is saying "any one of us can JG some things on prediction without risk by inputting g(G) any time we have a wide enough window to JG and block." You're saying "no, you can't. Because I said so." Am I missing anything here?

I'm saying theory does not equal reality, and I shouldn't have to explain that people with an intelligence level above that of an amoeba.

Jaguar King is an infamous poster on TZ who claimed that technically because the human eye could react in 12/100ths of a second, you could duck Electric Wind Godfists (an i15 move) on reaction, therefore rendering the key Mishima mixup into shit.

In all of TTT, T5, T6 and now TTT2 that has NEVER HAPPENED even though it is theoretically possible. Why? Because he didn't take into account other factors at work here, such as say, the time to perceive something versus the time to read AND react to it. Or that perceiving some animations is harder than others, or that the game takes time to register ones inputs.

So, when I look at JG, see people say "there are all these external factors", have patience and explain like garjian wanted to learn differently, I laugh. No he didn't. He never wanted to learn. He wanted to spew out "facts" without coloring them in reality, and taking into account external factors. It's on that judgement that I decided he was a moron.

Now you are coming off as a self righteous moron because you refuse to do any research on your own or THINK about the problem at hand. The people who genuinely WANTED the information in this thread asked for it and got it.

 

[Wandrian]

What exactly stops you from doing g(G) to supplement regular guarding then?

 

[IdleMind]

What exactly stops you from doing g(G) to supplement regular guarding then?

Read the thread. If you cannot parse that g(G) has several passive side effects as already explained by several posters in the thread with high level experience, then what is there left to say to you?

 

[JDub]

"Passive side-effects" is such a clinical term. But, accruing meter from defense in a safe way isn't something to be completely written off. I don't like double-tap because of the commitment to being defensive but if you can do it when you know you miss timed a JG then more power to ya. Anyway, this whole discussion is as if someone is proposing to always use this technique. Which if they have, I've chosen to ignore it.

Wandrian was saying to "supplement" regular guarding, which in my mind means he would have been guarding in the first place. So, why would g(G) have passive side-effects when you would be using G anyway? I'm still going to just try for clean JG's myself but I don't see how a blanket argument is going to work against people who don't seem to be making blanket statements.

 

[LP]

"Passive side-effects" is such a clinical term. But, accruing meter from defense in a safe way isn't something to be completely written off. I don't like double-tap because of the commitment to being defensive but if you can do it when you know you miss timed a JG then more power to ya. Anyway, this whole discussion is as if someone is proposing to always use this technique. Which if they have, I've chosen to ignore it.

Wandrian was saying to "supplement" regular guarding, which in my mind means he would have been guarding in the first place. So, why would g(G) have passive side-effects when you would be using G anyway? I'm still going to just try for clean JG's myself but I don't see how a blanket argument is going to work against people who don't seem to be making blanket statements.

Many highlevel players ALREADY do this. I know for a fact that you can find Keev, Xeph, Hawkeye, and myself doing it (though, more often than not, I JG and then do something like attack/step/duck or what have you). This is why people should come out and play. You get to experience these things in practice or even actually talk about them intelligently rather than spew out 'theoretical' nonsense that equates to screaming about an impending end that only you see. Why anyone would think that, given the chance, players wouldn't experiment with something that my help them when it's so plain to see is beyond me.

Like the topic where someone said something silly about everyone having an opinion, too, once again, this Garj character victimizes himself and talks about no one being willing to listen because of his negative opinion when, no, I'm unwilling to listen because he, like Idle has said, is determined to be stoic in his views. I gave him perfectly good examples which he conceded may have been good...and then he pretty much rewords his old arguments with new twists. There is no discusson there; only two jackasses butting heads until the other one falls and I have a couple of braincells left to leave well well enough alone wth that guy.

 

[TsunamiBye]

@garjian
Human reactions is paramount in any FG. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. The funny thing is people who do theory talk don't scare me as much until they show it to me. People who do the pro stuff such as JG everything also don't scare me as much. The people who know my weaknesses and exploit them are the ones I fear most.


I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

Waaataaah! Bruce Lee quote successfully used ^^;

 

[Signia]

JG is really fuckin good. Should it be removed for that? No. It only adds more complexity to the decision tree and neutral game.

Learn it, love it.

In practice, nobody. I repeat: NOBODY taps G, releases on frame 2 and holds again on frame 8. No competitive player does. Fuck what people show could be done in training mode.

It's really not that hard to do a JGG with a decent amount of JG frames. Do it enough and the motion becomes muscle memory. How long is 4-5 frames? Idk, I think I have a feel for how long that is by now. Oh and you really don't NEED to have max length JGs to hit them.

You also almost never need to JG and not hold G after, so you rarely EVER need to leave a vulnerable window at the end. To deal with most strings you can react accordingly after JGing the first hit. JGing and ducking AA is practically routine to me. The only move you really have to commit to to JG is BB, which will still cover other options around that speed but will leave you open to big launchers. Or if your reaction time is godlike you can JGG the first B and GI the second (I can't do it so I'm just gonna assume no one else can :D ...just like you all are).

Wtf you talkin' about? Nobody plays Yoshi. Lolololol.

Proof of the fact that if you don't travel out of state, you don't exist in the SC community.