Hilde Ban Discussion

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Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Ceirnian said:
Good job if you can on reaction gi all of her charges. I of course call BS, but hey if someone can GI on reaction each charge and never get baited more power to you.
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From Hilde's frame data:
i18: FC C1 B/FC C1 A/FC C2 A/FC C3 A
i19: FC C2 B/FC C3 B
i20: C1 A/C2 A/C3 A
i21: C1 B/C2 B/C3 B

She FLASHES blue and does a MID at the similar timings. How much easier can it get? I can't even imagine a more obvious visual cue.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

This thread is rather deceptive. Hilde is top tier but the doom combo is the only decent thing she has?

That doesn't make a character top tier. Mid-tier at best.

If anything, I question why people haven't tried to find other strategies and styles for playing Hilde effectively. Or is everyone too hung up on a steppable, woefully inconsistent, combo that can be interrupted on the first hit with a BB from more than 50% of the roster?

Sorry for sounding high and mighty here. But really, a combo that every Hilde player does (thus predictable) that can be stepped, doesn't work on every character and is rather slow for Hilde's typical range, doesn't make her god-like just because it can ring out.

What happens when/if they patch it? Does Hilde go from top-tier godhood to bottom of the barrel, just because a single combo stops working?

What about her safety? Her incredible range? Her 'other' combo that no one seems to remember (CH FC C3 AKB, B+K, 4A+B or C3 B, B+K, 4A+B).
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Her uncannily unbalanced risk-reward ratio is what makes her "broken" for me. Her charges set up to 100+ dmg combos or RO's. That, by itself, I can live with. But the fact that all but one of her charges ends up not only as safe, but ADVANTAGE on block is what really irks me. She gets a free 2A, 9K, throw attempt or whatever else after her charges. Meaning to say, using her C2 charges, quite frankly, have no risk and all the reward in the world.

In particular, C2A is what really annoys me. It leads to a 60-70 dmg combo, RO combo startup, hits mid, advantage on block, can't be stepped/jumped and aGI's everything but kicks. Seriously, if Hilde didn't have this move, or didn't have aGI at least, I would fight her as normal. But that aGI makes you scared to even attack and sidestep.

Bleh... enough of my rants. XD Sorry about that.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

SWBeta said:
That combo is hard to start if you're playing someone competent, anyway.

Unfortunately, most Hilde players over-rely on charge moves, so people know to just hang back and force a whiff by stepping. You just need mad patience when playing against Hilde... or anybody else, actually.
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Which way do you step the launcher? You can't 8 way run it, it's basically GI timing the step right? What is the best thing to do if you block a level 3 charged A?

Sora said:
Her uncannily unbalanced risk-reward ratio is what makes her "broken" for me.
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That's my thought too. Her risk/reward is ridiculous. It's as you say, very little to no risk, yet all the reward. The fact it forces you to GI or step is kinda bad, but then you consider what happens if you fail once? I'm cool with not banning her, but let's not dumb down how stupid good this combo.

Ideally, I would like it if the second part didn't relaunch in the combo. That way you wouldn't have insane ringout potential, or massive damage, but still keep Hilde in tact.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Hilde can be stepped and throwing her really messes up her charge game if she breaks the throw. Hilde's charge combos are what makes her decent without them she would get destroyed in a tournament if you take away the charge moves she is unplayable competitively. Leave her don't ban anything.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Crimson_Flash said:
Hilde can be stepped and throwing her really messes up her charge game if she breaks the throw. Hilde's charge combos are what makes her decent without them she would get destroyed in a tournament if you take away the charge moves she is unplayable competitively. Leave her don't ban anything.
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I thought this was a sound strategy at first, but if you whiff a throw just once, you would lose the match or 1/3rd of your health. The damage she takes from just taking a throw to the damage she can deal out if you whiff a throw is still tipped in Hilde's favor. Meaning to say, she doesn't NEED to break throws.

Only her C2B is steppable IIRC, and is only steppable to her right. However, it comes back to her step-killer, C2A, which the Hilde player can easily mixup to make you NOT step. Both charges lead to RO's, so you're basically left with step G, hoping she whiffs or throws out C2B more often.

Like was said, it takes mad patience to win against Hilde, and mad concentration as well.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Advantages for Hilde:
Arguably the best step in the game.
Doom Combo
More tech traps than I care to remember in a match.
Mid/Low RO options.
Extremely good punish range.
Extremely safe.

Disadvantage:
Charges are all over i18 meaning if you can guess when she's going to throw out a charge, you can throw her (throw is i17)
Predictable gameplay
charges are Warble-able (Case and point, Vader players can force parry on reaction with extreme ease)
Damage outside of charges is weak.
Very few viable wall combo's (at least at the mid level of play. High level hilde - walls can get very very nasty.)
all charges are stepable, including A charges.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

C3B can be stepped easily. C2B can be stepped but not as easily. C3A can be stepped but it's much harder.

kG step could be really useful, I need to remember to throw that one around a little more.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

IgnisPhaseOne said:
Problem solved.

Seriously though, you'll learn to deal with it. Practice against a great Hilde and you'll learn the combo.

BUT IT'S NOT BAN WORTHY. Let's all stop talking about bans, and just keep Yoda/Bonus/Customs/Infinites on the absolutely-ban list, and let Algol/Vader/SK continue their tumultuous float on the internets.
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Kinda hypocritical first you say deal with it, then you go on to say yoda should be banned? he's easier to beat than hilde and her doom combo, come on when you say something why should you say something else should be banned if you just said something that is harder to get passed shouldn't be banned? (Altho I still think nothing should be banned)

My probably Highly biased oppinion couldn't matter, but i'm just sayin
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Not all of her charges can be stepped, the whole thing is nobody is going to be standing neutral the entire match or actively waiting for her to charge. These things are more or less luck of the draw. Often times I end up eating a launch for improper punishment or whiffing.



To say this lady only is useful because of her long rang ringouts is pure foolishness. That means you cant play her on closed stages, correct? Oh wait, now im poking holes in that silly logic. Not even the Hilde players agreed with what some of you said. If Hilde didnt have those combos she would still be better that half the cast, so lets not make it seem as if you are FORCED to bait for a ringout because thats all she has.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Throwing Hilde is still heavily in her favor... people really need to understand this. When people attempt a throw(hell or a high) these are my options to win the game right then or there.

C3A into ringout
FC C2B into longer range ringout
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Demarcus said:
Kinda hypocritical first you say deal with it, then you go on to say yoda should be banned? he's easier to beat than hilde and her doom combo, come on when you say something why should you say something else should be banned if you just said something that is harder to get passed shouldn't be banned? (Altho I still think nothing should be banned)

My probably Highly biased oppinion couldn't matter, but i'm just sayin
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We WON'T have the character banning discussion here. There's plenty of other places for that to happen.

I don't care whether something is banned or not. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't try to ban things we can't enforce.

HOW are we going to "ban" Hilde's ring out move? You can't use C3B? EVER? You can't combo them out of the ring, but can get them right to the edge, and then do a DIFFERENT combo that also rings out but has an out that 1/60th of the players will be able to escape from as to differentiate the bad players from the experts?

The way that noobs & experts will be differentiated will be from that C3B launcher. (Or FC C2 BB, C3A, etc.) Who knows she has a good ring out game? Who is going to guard against it? Who is looking for it? Can the Hilde players even pull off the doom combos?

That's what will separate tournament players from tournament competitors. That's what'll separate noobs from experts. Don't limit ME or MY SKILLS, especially since you can't enforce it.

Honestly, I'd even be more up for discussing the point of banning Hilde ALL TOGETHER because she has this uber combo. Which, I think, is an incredibly stupid idea. It makes more sense to me though; you aren't limiting my skill WITH a character, you're limiting my choices before the round even starts, giving me ample time to realize that my main can't be used because she's "broken," and I get to prepare knowing that I have to use a different character AND I won't see any other Hildes in the competition. I'm fine with that, that's a discussion we can have (and I think we know what the outcome will be.) But a specific toolset ban is ridiculous.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I'm honestly hoping people saying to ban long combo is just going to add fuel to the fire on unbanning Algol, lol.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I dont think they are bannable, but I do want to bring up something to think about-

Algol got banned, if people recall (besides because people were whining), because he would have a negative effect on the way the community percieved the game, make it harder to attract newcomers, boil down to algol v algol finals. Personally, Hilde does far worse than that. I had 4 people straight quit the game after seeing it this past tournament. Yes, I know, fuck those bitches, ect. I'm just saying its something to reflect on.

Post Script: Im not pro ban. read before you flame.

-Idle
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I honestly don't see why Algol is banned. "Detremental to community because tournaments will be Algol v Algol" I call BS. Bubble Shield can be countered. Heck Alex.J said he can't use bubble shield against a few Nor Cal people because they counter it so well.
Likewise Hilde can be countered. She isn't broken since you can do things about it. "Oh if you make one mistake and eat C3B you die!" Um, C3B only launches you if you're grounded. any and every aerial move will screw up a C3B launch and wind up with you only taking 15-25 or so damage. And don't bring in problems with jumping as I'm not here to discuss each option and what's bad about them v what's good. I'm just stating that this shit can be countered and isn't perfect. If you're BT the combo will fail and B+K will whiff.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Artilust said:
Not all of her charges can be stepped, the whole thing is nobody is going to be standing neutral the entire match or actively waiting for her to charge. These things are more or less luck of the draw. Often times I end up eating a launch for improper punishment or whiffing.



To say this lady only is useful because of her long rang ringouts is pure foolishness. That means you cant play her on closed stages, correct? Oh wait, now im poking holes in that silly logic. Not even the Hilde players agreed with what some of you said. If Hilde didnt have those combos she would still be better that half the cast, so lets not make it seem as if you are FORCED to bait for a ringout because thats all she has.
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All of Hilde's standing charges can be stepped. The hardest one to step C3A. FC C2 A is the only one of that hasn't been stepped in my experience.

Talking about banning C3B is silly. C3B's canned combo is B+K 4A+B. Heck, FC C3AKB canned combo is B+K, 4A+B. B+K itself can ring out on bounce.

The most likely change up to the famed combo, should it ever be patched would be changing C2BB to prevent aerial re-launches, or simply miss aerial targets altogether. Dumping the horizontal range is another possibility. Adjusting C3A's knockback range far enough that C2BB can't reach anymore in another (and giving it a slight boost in RO power).


Curiously, even though its argued that combo is the only thing she has, what would happen if it couldn't be done anymore? What other strategies would you use to make Hilde successful in competitive play? What Tech Traps does she have? She doesn't have any frame traps. And her GB doesn't lead to much at all. The recovery makes it impossible to follow up with anything remotely useful. Which is typical of Hilde's current moveset outside of her charges. Nothing she has blocked or hit leads to anything clear of a key strategy outside of SG piercing.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Windstar, I think I need to introduce you to my 52 tech traps to rival doom.
not that they do, but she has a TON of tech trap variations and things very few people know about.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Learn to read sir. I didnt say her charge should be banned I said that full screen ringo-out combo. Theres no need. Soul Calibur isnt about making one false move and then its match over.



lol @"how can you enforce it"

Same way they enforced Marvel2 infinite glitches and 100% -ISM crap in Alpha 3. You do it at a tourney and you get disqualified. Its quite simple. Win because you are good not because you have the ability to exploit some wildly good strategy that makes old fashion winning by KO or being the overall better player obsolete.

THE END!


This community complains about crying so much, in the end if there is no structure to this game it will die off just like SC3. I could really give a crap because I still play SC2.
 
Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Runis said:
Windstar, I think I need to introduce you to my 52 tech traps to rival doom.
not that they do, but she has a TON of tech trap variations and things very few people know about.
Click to expand...

It would be awesome to learn even a fraction of them.
 
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