How is Rock against Hilde?

TheBattler

TheBattler

[08] Mercenary
I'm trying pretty hard to make a good, competitive Rock. I play with a fairly large group of Soul Calibur IV players in the town where I attend University, and the ringleader (edit)of our group(edit) has been using Hilde alot (although, he is actually a Kilik man)

My Astaroth is 40-60 (maybe 45-55) with his Hilde, advantage Hilde, and I'm slowly looking to be his equal with the giant ax man. However, I'd love it if I were able to wreck him with Rock, just because.

I'm wondering what are good moves for Rock to use against Hilde. When I'm playing Asty, his lows seem to be decent against my friend's Hilde, but Rock lacks a fairly quick low, as far as I know. The main substitute I know of is 2A+K, which isn't fast, but it's faster than 1A (it's so blatantly crippled compared to Astaroth's 1A -_-) and the crouch seems to come out quickly on that attack, even if the actual sweeping kick doesn't.

So, if anyone could help me figure out how to beat a Hilde aside from pure skill, which I am working on, that would be nice.
 
I don't know if Rock really stands a chance against a Hilde that knows what's up.

Don't whiff anything. Ever. Which is really hard considering Hilde will not let you in, and Rock's range really dosen't compete.

When you get in, stay in her face, 2K/FC 3K/Grab/ ANYTHING you can do to contain her. 6B+K is pretty useful too because if she throws a charge out as you use it, you don't get comboed and rung out. She CAN hurt 6B+K, but she can punish everything you do except FC 3K/JF PT anyways, so whatcha gonna do?

You're going to need to be psychic with GIs/blocking. A lot. You don't have auto-GIs, you can't punish her most of her mids OR lows, and your slow ass won't be able to beat her mixups post blocked C1/C2 A.

It also depends upon your stage as to whether hilde is going to rape you quickly or slowly. :p Also keep in mind that on stages with half-walls, you actually have an easier time ringing out Hilde then Hilde does you, with your ground grabs/A+G. The big long ring out combos don't actually do all that much damage, but they allow Hilde to get away and charge again, which puts Rock right back with the seemingly impossible task of getting in versus Hilde.

In short: You need patience and the stars need to be aligned.
 
Yeah, I was thinking that Rock needs to stay in Hilde's face to fight her. Rock's range is piss poor.

I forgot about 2K. Man, I need to keep the simple things in mind.
 
Rock > hilde and pretty easily too.

His 6K and bullrush stops all her charge moves (they can't be autoGId), Hilde also has a tendency to have problems with throws cuz she's charging as well. If she doesn't use her charges she does little damage. She struggles to punish Rock properly as well. She can't punish his 2A+K for instance. and Blocked 6K she gets a measly 6A+K.
 
Nikkelz, you aren't taking into account that a simple ducked grab or stepped bull rish can net her a combo on Rock. Don't over simplify the matchup and make it sound like she can't do anything to negate someone with good kick moves. Also with binds you can break throws just as well as any other cast member so that gets booted out of the equation.

With that said, she cannot 'doom' combo rock to ringout most of the time so that is one advantage he has. 6A+K gives Hilde a +8 on hit, that's pretty damn good.2A+K can be punished by 2a, not huge but it's still an option.
 
Maining Rock and Mina makes me so glad no Canadians are really on the Hilde boat yet. I know it'll happen, though, and I dread the coming of that day. I can only hope it'll be after another patch in which she's been nerfed or they've been buffed.

Anyways, stay close. If you whiff anything too obvious then cross your fingers and hope you didn't just get rung out. I think FC 3K should be helpful (it always is). Maybe work with Rock's throw range, and definitely learn what you can punish. I don't think it's a good match-up for Rock, at all.
 
I will be really honest here. I have no clue how to beat a competent Hilde. I really don't. I'm borderline thinking Hilde is the Balrog/Bison of SC4. She really is borderline broken in my opinion. I'll get the hilde punishment list going soon.
 
Ceirnian said:
Nikkelz, you aren't taking into account that a simple ducked grab or stepped bull rish can net her a combo on Rock. Don't over simplify the matchup and make it sound like she can't do anything to negate someone with good kick moves. Also with binds you can break throws just as well as any other cast member so that gets booted out of the equation.

With that said, she cannot 'doom' combo rock to ringout most of the time so that is one advantage he has. 6A+K gives Hilde a +8 on hit, that's pretty damn good.2A+K can be punished by 2a, not huge but it's still an option.
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Grab can always be ducked and punished, but of course with that depends on the opponent, and Rock has crouch grabs as well, so it's better to break than attempt to duck imo.
I did not mean to oversimplify the matchup but she doesn't really have advantage vs Rock really. A compared to other characters. Rock has advantages on her. She cannot zone him well and she cannot punish well. A good Rock HARDLY ever whiffs, seriously. She strives on whiff punishment.
It is hard to step Rock's bullrush, it isn't like Asta's. It tracks better, it recovers better. Of course it gets easier when you're at more advantage, but saying you can step bullrush consistently is bogus. I've talked to Shen Yuan what he thinks of this matchup since he plays a good Rock on a regular and he admits that the matchup is tough and forces him to play a different kind of game since he can't use the charges as much as he likes (which is hilde's strength)
Binding buttons is not legal in tourneys here.
 
Button binding does make a big difference for Hilde. I just updated the punishment list for Hilde. As you can tell, there isn't much Rock can do on Hilde.
 
Rock in general is not a punishment character ;) so it's all good. I mean getting 6A and 2K or 4B in some places is just pitiful. Doesn't really matter in his matchups however.
 
Thanks for the help guys, even if Rock vs Hilde is a bad matchup.

I've been practicing against another Hilde (my sister, but at least it's better than fighting the CPU), and I've found a few things that might work against my friend in particular, but not really against Hilde.
 
try dashing after blocking some of her charge moves and see if that is a viable strategy against Hilde. If it is, then let us know. I don't face any good Hilde's offline so I cannot check.
 
Haven - where from Canada are you from.

And in general, against Hilde, you simply bait the charges....EZ stuff....why block and Charge...GI THAT SHIT!!
 
Rock doesn't have anything over Astaroth in this matchup. Hilde may lose her doom combo, but Rock loses 2B+G, and that's not a very even trade.
 
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seriously.... rock doesn't lose his 2B+G... i mentioned this long ago... losing 2B+G = the move disappeared.

more specifically Rock loses 2B+G -> A+B... but as far as damage goes.. it's the same shit.... you can still connect rock's damage combo from 2B+G.... honestly if you REALLY wanna RO hilde... there's another way as well... it's not guaranteed like A+B but just gotta be creative...

as for rock advantage over asta....against hilde... that's only your opinion...... why?

in rocks ground throw game... i can EASILY make hilde lose both her C3A and C3B charges... asta can't do this as easily... example... 6K CH -> 3A+G -> 1B+G ... done.

another advantage. 2A+K... asta doesn't have this move..

another advantage/disadvantage depends how you see it.... Rock's BR is much harder to step compared to astas... but it also doesn't TC as well... thing is for this match up Hilde doesn't really use much high moves...

-LAU
 
Ok, what do you do instead? Last I played it 9B didn't connect either. Or maybe that was Vader. And Hilde can step Rock's bullrush. Can't say if it's harder or easier than Astaroth's, but I've had mine stepped.

That's just what I saw from my limited experience with the matchup. I still think Astaroth is way better, and I don't see 2A+K being that big of a deal; it's not like that move is at all hard to read.
 
D.I.N.O said:
Haven - where from Canada are you from.

And in general, against Hilde, you simply bait the charges....EZ stuff....why block and Charge...GI THAT SHIT!!
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I live in Mississauga, Canada.

We, I at least, block much more often than GI. If I GI those charged moves because they're kinda obvious and I can sorta predict when it will come, then that's awesome. But I find myself blocking a lot as well since it's safer than GIing every charge move. Imagine Hilde being in trouble after we GI OR after we block. In trouble because we're closing the gap no matter what attack pushes us back (almost no matter...we still need to be careful).

And dashing is better than just running forward (or charging towards opponent by holding 6) since: running forward ---> "I'm accelerating towards you to reach max speed." and jf dashing after blocking ---> "BOOM you're there."


And Lau definitely made me feel better about playing Rock.
 
page said:
Ok, what do you do instead? Last I played it 9B didn't connect either. Or maybe that was Vader. And Hilde can step Rock's bullrush. Can't say if it's harder or easier than Astaroth's, but I've had mine stepped.

That's just what I saw from my limited experience with the matchup. I still think Astaroth is way better, and I don't see 2A+K being that big of a deal; it's not like that move is at all hard to read.
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9B connects man and all associated setups and combos :)

It IS harder to step Rock's bullrush over Asta, you can trust on this one. It recovers better too.

Astaroth is a better character in general no doubt, but as for the matchup, not so really.

2A+K...because it's essentially safe vs hilde and it has a VERY good TC and has antistep properties. It's an attack you use fearlessly. Just because of TC and horizontal property makes it land.

For Hilde vs Rock matches, check these old shen vids for eg
 
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Ok, what do you do instead? Last I played it 9B didn't connect either. Or maybe that was Vader. And Hilde can step Rock's bullrush. Can't say if it's harder or easier than Astaroth's, but I've had mine stepped.

That's just what I saw from my limited experience with the matchup. I still think Astaroth is way better, and I don't see 2A+K being that big of a deal; it's not like that move is at all hard to read.
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8B is always more reliable for this combo and you're talking about maybe 1 or 2 damage less....

2A+K = safe / tech crouch / full step coverage move / that's long range.... it's good even if they can see it.. they can't deny the TC/range/safeness

hilde and most characters CAN step rock's bullrush... it's one thing that they can it's another thing if they can do it in a game.... there's always a big difference here... and how often they can step it.

general tip against hilde is... pitbull her but do it indirectly meaning.. don't play 2D calibur... which i can say most players do.... and when i say most players i don't mean random players i mean most players on this forum that i've seen videos of.

-LAU
 
[G]9B post 2B+G is how you do it.

Hilde can punish 2A+K sadly.

Hilde doesn't need to use charges against Rock. Charges don't add that much value for Hilde in this matchup, especially the level 3 ones.

The matchup is against Rock.

Vader... NOTHING CONNECTS AGAINST THIS DUDE. He has the most awkward float property of all... HE LANDS BEHIND YOU. 9A sadly is the most I could get.
 
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