How to play Safefried 101

onlywingedangel

onlywingedangel

[09] Warrior
Ok we all know Siegfried is without a doubt a sink or swim character. Risky to the max, but judging from how Offbeat ninja plays I'd say its possible to play Siegfried safe, to an extent.

but what moves to use?

so far all I can think of is 4K and 6B
 
6B isnt really all that safe

algol can punish it at close to mid range for 70 dmg and I know for a fact raph can punish it regardless of range
 
It was off the top of my head.

I've used it as a stance slayer especially against mitsu.

B6 and B4 are also pretty good. for some reason SBH A is safe, although I've never really found a use for it outside of wall combos.

agA to an extent works. it's like a super speed 66A.

6B rather shouldn't be used as a direct attack but a long-range poke. at the right range it can hit bubble-spam algol.
 
I apologize, I meant to write a guide in full.

BUT I am at school currently so I can't do so.

I will however later in the day.
 
3(B)~kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk~A_B+G

too legit.
 
LOL Lobo your clearly a better Sieg than anyone else here

You really think Offbeat ninja plays a safe Siegfried? id call Sacharja's sieg relatively safe and mine has become much more safe of late too but last I checked Offbeat plays a crazysexy unsafe Sieg.

Anyway OWA Phylocide is right the title does imply some sort of guide. Next time I see you on javachat lets go about editing the initial post together? Where to start with learning Sieg ECT. Its good to see your still around and I really hope this soul arena gets resurrected.
 
4b, aa?? Really? both are i18~19 and high. Forgetting anything? 22_88, 3b, 6k, stance Roulette? Something about this thread feels very lazy. No offense to anyone
 
safe moves for siggy that i use/spam(mainly spam XD)

agA*
b:4*
b4*
b6
4A
WR B*
44B*
SSH B*
SCH KK
SCH k
SCH A
4K
a+k[A]
a+kA[A]
22
*
SBH [K]
WR [A]
SRSH A+B

*advantage/neutral on g. i believe all others i listed are disadvantage, but mostly not punishable except by moves such as imcf. that means block after ^^(im a big turtle)

u'll have to be a bit more selective with ur stance roullete. keep in mind spacing, SBH agi and 2_8B+K SCH dodge for some verticles. wudnt reccomend using SRSH very much.

remember if u do something punishable to just not do anything to avoid CH. sit back, G, and take it like a champ.

course this is just my play style...

WR B is ur bread n butter attack sequence here, but remember they can step G the SCH mixups if they're fast. they may even step SCH and duck the first hit of SCH A then punish with 1K, 2A or a TC.

trust me wen i say SPAM.

endnow said:
4b, aa?? Really? both are i18~19 and high. Forgetting anything? 22_88, 3b, 6k, stance Roulette? Something about this thread feels very lazy. No offense to anyone
Click to expand...


did i help things seem less lazy?
 
WR B, WR K, K, A, b6, 3K, 4K, agA, a+k:A:2A, throws

but if you want to play that safe you should really play a different character, Sieg really isn't anything special unless you take risks at the right times.
 
u know i cud disagree with u there because using siggy safe moves can set u up for his other punishable moves in the form of frame traps, tech traps, mixups, ect. and seing as hes quite balanced otherwise, u can sit back, w8, and unlease devastating punishes on ur opponent with out ever having to risk urself. then once u have them playing ur little game, u can turn the tables n start freeing up ur stance options. hes alot without aggression too, look at his devastating wall combos, and the delicious spacing. there are so many ways to play good old siggy tht its really hard to predict 1 from another. personally, i really cant use any other character, because they just dont have the same flow for me as sieg does. with this u can pressure wen u need it, get hits wen guaranteed and protect urself from the risk part of high risk high reward. that plus playing as such will teach u to respect frame data, which makes u a much better player in general. perhaps then u cud even translate from an online environment to an offline environment. for me thats what truly counts.
 
XD this is kinder-garden LOL.
I'll only say that Siegfried is a killer not a fighter. Stalk and mislead your opponents, deceive is Siegfried's best friend. Play like a snake, toy with your opponents, let them think they are winning... then boom. XD
 
@Endnow,
4B is mid... :(

@OnlyWingedAngel,
aGA and 66A are about the same speed, aGA is i21~i27 and 66A is i22... aGA is +2 on grd and 66A is -15, 66A has a good tech crouch, agA has a JF (i18)...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seigfried is one of the characters reliant upon fear-advantage to either remain safe or continue an offense from fear-advantage... There's 2 examples of this, 44 and a+kA2A... In 44's case on grd SBH K is uninterruptable, if the opponent expects SBH K they'll most-likely block it and punish because SBH K is -22 on grd... So in Sig's favor he can instead do SBH B witch is safe but slow/ interruptable/ steppable (44, SBH B crushes in 4 blocks btw)... In the case of step, SBH A will catch all step after 44 is blocked, 44 leaves the opponent in FC on grd anyway, SBH A is safe (-8 on grd), but some characters will use a TC'ing move to interrupt SBH B... It's all a gamble and there are other situations like that, like 1A then guard or 1AA (if they try to punish)... a+kA2A*a+kA2AA is the best example of this, a+kA2A is -8 on grd, it's one of the safest lows in the game besides Amy's BP K... I love using a+kA2A, b6 and a+k[A], SCH A*B*K... Fear-advantage is basically pulling your punches... 3KK*3K, 1K*3K, 3K, stuff like that even though 3K is -13 on grd and 1K followup is i28 the opponent could be scarred to punish because of the whole 3KKB string...
SAFE MOVES: (moves are -14 or safer on grd)
A, AA, aGA, a:G:A, 4A, JMP A, BT A, BT 2A, B, B2[A], b6, b4, b:4, 2B, 4B, 4BB, FC 2B, JMP B, BT B, BT 2B, K, 6K, 3K, 1K, 4K, FC 2K, WR K, JMP K, BT 2K, A+BA, A+K, A+KA, A+KAA, A+KA2A, a+kA, a+kAA, a+kA2A, 44*11*77A, 66*33*99KA, 11*77K, SBH A, SBH B, SBH [K], SBH A+B, SRSH A+B, SCH A, SCH B, SCH (1/2 charge), SCH (MAX), SCH KK, SCH A+B, SSH B, SSH K, SBTCH B
BEST TRANSITIONS: (on grd, blue = safe, red = unsafe)
Base Hold - 44**SSH
Chief Hold - WR *A+K[A]*a+k[A]
Reverse Side Hold - SSH [A]
Side Hold - a+kA[A]
BT Side Hold - SBTCH [A]
(unsafe transitions are listed due to fear-advantage)
ATTACKS NEGATIVE ON HIT & CH:
AA, 2A, 1A, FC 2A, WR A, WR Aa2, BB, 3B*33B (far range), 4B, 4BB, BT BB, 3K, 2K*2KKKKK, A+BA, A+KK, 66*33*99K, SRSH A, SCH A, SCH kB, SBTCH A

Playing Sig is a high stakes game of SCD, range, and mixup... Sig's stances are apart of his mixup game and playing safe in stances means getting out ASAP in order to grd safely here's the...
BEST STANCE EXITS:
SBH B (for SCD and pushback)
SRSH A+B (this is the only safe move in Reverse Side Hold)
SCH KK (fast NC with minor advantage on hit)
SCH B (good SCD, charging generates more advantage)
SSH B (good SCD, IMP's H Horizontal attacks)
SSH K (fast H, Sig gets great combos off a CH)

Seigfried's Roullete is a sham!!! Most transitions are about 20 frames, ex: WR (-1 on grd), 4B+K (-25 ~SSH), SSH K (is now i41)... SHAM!!! The opponent was only affraid to interrupt from knowing after WR that SCH K is i12, if you factor the kick in they still have about 29 frames to interrupt, that's about half a second, don't forget standard 2A's tech crouch at i9... SHAM!!!
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
@Endnow,
4B is mid... :(

@OnlyWingedAngel,
aGA and 66A are about the same speed, aGA is i21~i27 and 66A is i22... aGA is +2 on grd and 66A is -15, 66A has a good tech crouch, agA has a JF (i18)...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seigfried is one of the characters reliant upon fear-advantage to either remain safe or continue an offense from fear-advantage... There's 2 examples of this, 44 and a+kA2A... In 44's case on grd SBH K is uninterruptable, if the opponent expects SBH K they'll most-likely block it and punish because SBH K is -22 on grd... So in Sig's favor he can instead do SBH B witch is safe but slow/ interruptable/ steppable (44, SBH B crushes in 4 blocks btw)... In the case of step, SBH A will catch all step after 44 is blocked, 44 leaves the opponent in FC on grd anyway, SBH A is safe (-8 on grd), but some characters will use a TC'ing move to interrupt SBH B... It's all a gamble and there are other situations like that, like 1A then guard or 1AA (if they try to punish)... a+kA2A*a+kA2AA is the best example of this, a+kA2A is -8 on grd, it's one of the safest lows in the game besides Amy's BP K... I love using a+kA2A, b6 and a+k[A], SCH A*B*K... Fear-advantage is basically pulling your punches... 3KK*3K, 1K*3K, 3K, stuff like that even though 3K is -13 on grd and 1K followup is i28 the opponent could be scarred to punish because of the whole 3KKB string...
SAFE MOVES: (moves are -14 or safer on grd)
A, AA, aGA, a:G:A, 4A, JMP A, BT A, BT 2A, B, B2[A], b6, b4, b:4, 2B, 4B, 4BB, FC 2B, JMP B, BT B, BT 2B, K, 6K, 3K, 1K, 4K, FC 2K, WR K, JMP K, BT 2K, A+BA, A+K, A+KA, A+KAA, A+KA2A, a+kA, a+kAA, a+kA2A, 44*11*77A, 66*33*99KA, 11*77K, SBH A, SBH B, SBH [K], SBH A+B, SRSH A+B, SCH A, SCH B, SCH (1/2 charge), SCH (MAX), SCH KK, SCH A+B, SSH B, SSH K, SBTCH B
BEST TRANSITIONS: (on grd, blue = safe, red = unsafe)
Base Hold - 44**SSH
Chief Hold - WR *A+K[A]*a+k[A]
Reverse Side Hold - SSH [A]
Side Hold - a+kA[A]
BT Side Hold - SBTCH [A]
(unsafe transitions are listed due to fear-advantage)
ATTACKS NEGATIVE ON HIT & CH:
AA, 6A, 2A, 1A, FC 2A, WR A, WR Aa2, BB, 3B*33B (far range), 4B, 4BB, BT BB, 3K, 2K*2KKKKK, A+BA, A+KK, 66*33*99K, SRSH A, SCH A, SCH kB, SBTCH A

Playing Sig is a high stakes game of SCD, range, and mixup... Sig's stances are apart of his mixup game and playing safe in stances means getting out ASAP in order to grd safely here's the...
BEST STANCE EXITS:
SBH B (for SCD and pushback)
SRSH A+B (this is the only safe move in Reverse Side Hold)
SCH KK (fast NC with minor advantage on hit)
SCH B (good SCD, charging generates more advantage)
SSH B (good SCD, IMP's H Horizontal attacks)
SSH K (fast H, Sig gets great combos off a CH)

Seigfried's Roullete is a sham!!! Most transitions are about 20 frames, ex: WR (-1 on grd), 4B+K (-25 ~SSH), SSH K (is now i41)... SHAM!!! The opponent was only affraid to interrupt from knowing after WR that SCH K is i12, if you factor the kick in they still have about 29 frames to interrupt, that's about half a second, don't forget standard 2A's tech crouch at i9... SHAM!!!
Click to expand...


i love you , have my babies .
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
@Endnow,
4B is mid... :(

@OnlyWingedAngel,
aGA and 66A are about the same speed, aGA is i21~i27 and 66A is i22... aGA is +2 on grd and 66A is -15, 66A has a good tech crouch, agA has a JF (i18)...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seigfried is one of the characters reliant upon fear-advantage to either remain safe or continue an offense from fear-advantage... There's 2 examples of this, 44 and a+kA2A... In 44's case on grd SBH K is uninterruptable, if the opponent expects SBH K they'll most-likely block it and punish because SBH K is -22 on grd... So in Sig's favor he can instead do SBH B witch is safe but slow/ interruptable/ steppable (44, SBH B crushes in 4 blocks btw)... In the case of step, SBH A will catch all step after 44 is blocked, 44 leaves the opponent in FC on grd anyway, SBH A is safe (-8 on grd), but some characters will use a TC'ing move to interrupt SBH B... It's all a gamble and there are other situations like that, like 1A then guard or 1AA (if they try to punish)... a+kA2A*a+kA2AA is the best example of this, a+kA2A is -8 on grd, it's one of the safest lows in the game besides Amy's BP K... I love using a+kA2A, b6 and a+k[A], SCH A*B*K... Fear-advantage is basically pulling your punches... 3KK*3K, 1K*3K, 3K, stuff like that even though 3K is -13 on grd and 1K followup is i28 the opponent could be scarred to punish because of the whole 3KKB string...
SAFE MOVES: (moves are -14 or safer on grd)
A, AA, aGA, a:G:A, 4A, JMP A, BT A, BT 2A, B, B2[A], b6, b4, b:4, 2B, 4B, 4BB, FC 2B, JMP B, BT B, BT 2B, K, 6K, 3K, 1K, 4K, FC 2K, WR K, JMP K, BT 2K, A+BA, A+K, A+KA, A+KAA, A+KA2A, a+kA, a+kAA, a+kA2A, 44*11*77A, 66*33*99KA, 11*77K, SBH A, SBH B, SBH [K], SBH A+B, SRSH A+B, SCH A, SCH B, SCH (1/2 charge), SCH (MAX), SCH KK, SCH A+B, SSH B, SSH K, SBTCH B
BEST TRANSITIONS: (on grd, blue = safe, red = unsafe)
Base Hold - 44**SSH
Chief Hold - WR *A+K[A]*a+k[A]
Reverse Side Hold - SSH [A]
Side Hold - a+kA[A]
BT Side Hold - SBTCH [A]
(unsafe transitions are listed due to fear-advantage)
ATTACKS NEGATIVE ON HIT & CH:
AA, 6A, 2A, 1A, FC 2A, WR A, WR Aa2, BB, 3B*33B (far range), 4B, 4BB, BT BB, 3K, 2K*2KKKKK, A+BA, A+KK, 66*33*99K, SRSH A, SCH A, SCH kB, SBTCH A

Playing Sig is a high stakes game of SCD, range, and mixup... Sig's stances are apart of his mixup game and playing safe in stances means getting out ASAP in order to grd safely here's the...
BEST STANCE EXITS:
SBH B (for SCD and pushback)
SRSH A+B (this is the only safe move in Reverse Side Hold)
SCH KK (fast NC with minor advantage on hit)
SCH B (good SCD, charging generates more advantage)
SSH B (good SCD, IMP's H Horizontal attacks)
SSH K (fast H, Sig gets great combos off a CH)

Seigfried's Roullete is a sham!!! Most transitions are about 20 frames, ex: WR (-1 on grd), 4B+K (-25 ~SSH), SSH K (is now i41)... SHAM!!! The opponent was only affraid to interrupt from knowing after WR that SCH K is i12, if you factor the kick in they still have about 29 frames to interrupt, that's about half a second, don't forget standard 2A's tech crouch at i9... SHAM!!!
Click to expand...


iagA is i18 or so. Try punishins X's aab or Astas 6ab with it. If you buffer correctly it works.

Furthermore talking about the frames it takes to enter stance ? You dont enter stance to beat out your opponents speed. When you are at advantage +2-+8 but cant punish ake your opponent fear your b6's then enter stance for a mixup. I doubt many players in the world are quick enough to interrupt a stance transition on time on reaction.

The Transitions you listed as being safe on block seem a little pointless. Why would you pull out most moves if you didnt think they were going to hit? Furthermore SCH k or SBH k can almost always be GIed or stepped and even on block they are not safe plus neither of these stances have a mid/low mixup. I think your post is a little bit too objective. There is no right or wrong way to play as Sieg.

I watched a match where Icecold was doing 8B+K then canceling into a throw or 1b. According to frames this is very impractical but trying it myself and it sure does confuse your opponent. If they try to attack you use SCH b. You are basing your play style around solid data and not really factoring in human reaction times or how your opponent has been conditioned.

Also do you use b6 at all? Am I the only sieg that sees just how useful this move is for the character? long ranged i16 move that gives you advantage ? Against most characters after b4 is blocked at tip range b6 is a frame trap.

Also you listed safe stance moves. Only problem is you only listed SBH A+B as the low for him to use. So am I to expect no SSH a, aa, A+B or SRSH k when playing against you? I dont think I will fear your stanceplay much after a few matches. SSH a and aa while not safe provides a fantastic mixup and SRSH k and SRSH b is 50/50 for sieg with uba damage potential coming from B
 
Regular agA and iagA can be performed at the same speed, which is i17 btw. There is no speed advantage to the JF whatsoever. Hard to get, similar to some diagonal 8WR inputs, but possible.
 
@ Sacharja,
I'll have to look at that later, good stuff... aGA = i17 to i27 ??????????
EDIT:
I can only get a:G:A at i18...

@Endnow,
I don't mean to cause a stir, I respect your opinions and agree that there is no right or wrong way to play Sig, but I think you should reread what I posted carefully and make some changes in that last comment, I don't think you meant that last comment as an attack... A couple things I'd like to point out, when I was commenting on those moves, I was genrally speaking about grd data, and this thread is about playing safe if I'm not mistaken... SSH A*SSH AA is another example of fear-advantage, SSH A is great if you get it to hit, on grd even if you transition into stance it's horribly punishable, but what's risky about punishing it is the second low swing, if you think they'll interrupt SSH AA is the way to go (except against Ivy, her SW JMP B will dominate)... If SSH A hits you are at +0 and have time to do b6, or a+kA2A, or even 3 depending on range... On another note, yes when I play I try factoring the human reaction time as best as I can, but it ussually comes down to which move you throw out last at close range... The human reaction time ussually comes into play when you are both at a distance and either stepping or spacing, or when you and the opponent are waiting for eah other to throw out an attack, situations like that you know... If we are talking offline, it shouldn't be a problem to recognize the attack you blocked and react accordingly, online is a give or take enviroment in that matter... About b6, I agree it's an amazing attack in Sig's arsenal, +1 on hit, completely safe, never said you shouldn't use it, b6 can also be confusing for the opponent since it leaves them in FC position on hit, the only dowside is it's steppable... About WR , I understand SCH K is steppable, but it isn't very interruptable either, I use WR on grd to continue pressure and possibly get off a SCH B safely, and if you think they'll step then use SCH A...
It also comes down to who you're fighting too, if they aren't good at punishing then by all means throw all the unsafe shit you want at them...
 
Are there any other examples where slide-input JF attacks are slower than thier original move???
I'm not sure if thats a rule, where the JF version is the fastest version, so if that's true than aGA should be i18 too it shouldn't be any faster than the JF version, assuming aGA can be executed that fast at all, the JF a:G:A is i18 for sure...
Just remebered 6A is a KND on CH, so I took that out...
 
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