Ivy BD Changes

Wished CH WP 4B,B+K combos do more damage, for a high. What happens if the opponent only gets CH on the second hit? Does it still spin?

5hit JF doing more dmg in combos is good, but all the wallsplats require WP 3, which sometimes may not be consistent.

And I wish she gets something that wallsplats to her left, as most of her moves wallsplats to her front and right.

- CL -> SE switch is gone.
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Sigh... its no surprise since hold is gone. Would of been interesting since 5 Hit Jf hurts more now.
 
Davo87 said:
Wished CH WP 4B,B+K combos do more damage, for a high. What happens if the opponent only gets CH on the second hit? Does it still spin?
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Yes, it does. But the spin is shorter than in SC4, so I couldn't find any better follow up than 22_88B and 9B in CL (that crappy A+B+K doesn't even hit grounded) In SC4, you could do another CL 4B, and then CL 236BB or SW 214K, in BD it doesn't work.

WP 4B,B+K is unfortunately character dependent. On small character, you will be punished on hit, because the mid hit always whiffs from almost any side, that's stupid... it works normally on bigger characters. On smaller ones you need to be sure that you will get a CH, otherwise you're in trouble.

Also checked the aGIs, and I can't see any differences:

WS A+B is the same
WP A+B is the same
WP 4A+B... still pushes back on aGI making Ivy open for an attack. Also the damage is smaller (25 in BD, 40 in SC4) Looks like they thought it was "too good" in SC4.
CL 1A - nothing changes in this move. It's identical in its crappiness.
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Oh, by the way. SW 1KB is listed in move list as... attack throw on midair opponent. It wasn't like that in SC4, right? At first I thought that maybe they finally made it impossible to AC in combos, but I checked it, and you can still AC it...

And found something cool with CL 1B,B+K. It indeed gives a shakable sit down stun in stun combos, but near wall, it gives a great wallsplat instead of shakable stun! You can get another one after that, haven't tested all options but if you land WP 66B near wall, you pretty much get a guaranteed 100dmg on normal hit. For example:

WP 66B, CL1B,B+K (wall), CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB = 111dmg
 
Best news of the day, this should def boost up Ivy's wallgame. Nice find Ring! Now lets all hope nerfco won't take Ivy and beat her with a big club again :(
I still don't understand why they would nerf WP 4A+B's damage..... it's so slow, it's almost impossible to get a GI with that anyways.
 
Yes, CL 1B,B+K is now great in wall combos. Also it cannot be ACed after launchers, and the second hit slams them to the ground. Too back it doesn't do much damage.

I'm furious at what they did to SE. Today I found that the WP 3->SE K/66K frametrap can be interrupted by i13 high moves like K or AA. This is stupid, because SE K and 66K were TC... now the opponent not only can step everything, but also interrupt... if he tries to interrupt with AA or K, we can SE A+K which TCs instantly, but it's very risky... meh. WP 3-> SE K trades with i13 moves but it launches them, so we can follow it up with 6B8, yet we still take damage. SE 66K also trades, but instead of lunching it stuns them and they are too far from us, so there's nothing we can do. SE is so random now and utterly useless =(

AssassinX21 said:
I still don't understand why they would nerf WP 4A+B's damage..... it's so slow, it's almost impossible to get a GI with that anyways.
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Actually the aGI window starts from the first frame like in SC4, but the main problem of this move is that it pushes randomly opponent on aGI, making Ivy open for an attack. The pushback doesn't occur only near walls and ring edges.
 
Ring said:
I'm furious at what they did to SE. Today I found that the WP 3->SE K/66K frametrap can be interrupted by i13 high moves like K or AA. This is stupid, because SE K and 66K were TC... now the opponent not only can step everything, but also interrupt... if he tries to interrupt with AA or K, we can SE A+K which TCs instantly, but it's very risky... meh. WP 3-> SE K trades with i13 moves but it launches them, so we can follow it up with 6B8, yet we still take damage. SE 66K also trades, but instead of lunching it stuns them and they are too far from us, so there's nothing we can do. SE is so random now and utterly useless =(
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Are you kidding me? this is getting so ridiculous at what Namco is doing to her and I'm getting pissed off myself. That was one of SE best setups and they nerf it. WP 3 isn't that damn good, since Ivy goes right into SE what are you going to do just stand there? no! your going to attack like someone stole your lunch money. and the only mixup she had with that was A+K and K/66K maybe even A236A if they can't break the stun, but no Namco thinks it's too good to be true! (nerf hammer) Well itleast SE A+B still tracks for the wall trap. So if people starts sidewalking Namco EXPECTS you to do the slow ass SE A+K get blocked and get hit.
 
I'm disgusted by this change. It's not even funny anymore, because after 1 year of people whining of the forums about how bad SE is, I really expected them to make it better in BD, but they made it much worse. Even SE A+K can be stepped to both sides. That's really sad. I will try to bring better news next time, lol.
 
@Ring: Erm... and u posted somewhere saying she is upper mid tier? o_O I still have bad feelings about her.
 
I said that she still *can* be upper mid tier. That was before I even discovered this. I guess the frame data will give us the definitive answer =P

After playing some VS against the A.I recently, I find myself staying in WP much more often than in SC4. Her step is great, you can easily avoid opponents moves with it, and you can spam BB, AA, 2B. Also I think in BD you have to actually take advantage of the stance cooldown, because it allows you to use moves like WP 6B+K2_8 twice before taking you back to CL.
 
I don't see how she can stay in the upper-mid, she got a bunch of nerfs and no good buffs to make up for it.
The only good buffs I see is: BB is NC on each stance, CL 1B,B+K wall splat, WP 3B and SW WS B lets you have better options, and the movement in WP is also a plus.
 
Ivy's A+B+K is probably the worst CFAttack in BD. It's the slowest in the game at i42 (thanks Suirad) with no good properties at all (ok, maybe except that it forces crouch on block so certain characters can have problems with punishing it)

Tested a little bit more Soul Gauge damage (will try to do whole list soon...) the buffs I noticed. The numbers from SC4 are in "( )"

A+B+K - 8
WP 6bA+B - 10 (30)
SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 9 (18)
WP 44A+B~A+B - 8 (9)
WP FC 3B - 19 (50+)
WP A+B - 15 (50+)
WP 44BB - 10 (41)

Haven't checked everything, but the other moves are mostly nerfed in terms of SG damage (but every character in BD got nerfed in this department badly, so... poor S.Mina)
 
That it breaks in 8 is something of a redeeming property. I haven' found any single-hit moves for sophie that break better than 10 so far.

Seeing those numbers now makes me wonder how good other characters are at breaking gauge. In SCIV most of the #s were realitively close by character and what decided whether the SG game worth while was a move's usability.
 
dunno if its been mentioned but CL A+B,A SW 9B8 no longer works. not airborne long enough after the 3rd hit of CL A+B,A connects. that's killed one of the better stance shift combos i had going for me. =\
 
Suirad said:
That it breaks in 8 is something of a redeeming property. I haven' found any single-hit moves for sophie that break better than 10 so far.

Seeing those numbers now makes me wonder how good other characters are at breaking gauge. In SCIV most of the #s were realitively close by character and what decided whether the SG game worth while was a move's usability.
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I thought every A+B+K in the game breaks the gauge in 8 hits. What a surprise. Well, I think Ivy had one of the best SG damage in SC4, now it's much worse, but I still am not sure how does it compare to other characters. I'm really sad about her CF attack after seeing what other chars got though... Tira for example can combo for 1/3 life bar after A+B+K. Not fair =(

@sras - indeed, it doesn't work but... it was never a combo. Not in SC2/SC3/SC4...they could air control out of the air throw so just go for CL A+B,A+K. Or stop using A+B at all because it's now -17 on block for whatever reason. Not to mention, they still haven't fixed the whiffing issues.
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OK, I went through entire move list for both SC4 and BD Ivy's and got some good news,but before that...

- Either WP 4A+B,B got seriously nerfed or it's a glitch. The B part is not guaranteed even if they get hit on CH. This move is no longer NC/NCC. The B part will hit as NC only when you successfuly aGI opponent's move with it, which means that will happen very rarely due to that aGI pushback. Oh well...

+ 2K does the same damage in all stances (12dmg). In SC4: SW 2K - 12, CL/WP 2K - 9.

+ FC K does 14 dmg in every stance. For SC4, see above.

+ CL/WP 3K has huge range. This kick was pretty bad in SC4, now they increased its range a lot. It's great!

+ CL 6A,A+K knocks down on CH. You get guaranteed followups near wall.

Damage modifier SC4-SC:BD

CL

CH 6A,K - 45 (+8)
FC A - 12 (+3)
BB - 30 (NC)
1B,B+K - 30 (-1)
236BB - 37 (+1)
FC B - 18 (+2)
A+B,A - 23 (-6)
A+B,A+K - 25 (-5)

SW - Sword got nerfed in the damage department more than CL/WP for whatever reason.

AA - 20 (-2)
2A - 10 (-2)
1A - 19 (+4)
BB - 28 (-4)
3B - 18 (-4)
2B - 16 (-2)
FC B - 18 (+2)
A+B - 32 (-25)
[A+B] - 58 (-20)
2A+B - 25 (-5)
66A - 24 (-6)
22_88B - 19 (-3)

WP

AA - 16 (-2)
CH 1AA - 20 (-7)
FC A - 10 (+2)
BB - 28 (NC)
2B - 16 (+2)
FC B - 20 (+6)
22_88B - 17 (-8)
66A+B - 43 (-17)
44A+B - 36 (-10)
1_2_3B+K - 20/20/20 (+10/+5/-5)

SE

4B+K - 20 (+10)
B+K - 20 (+5)
6B+K - 20 (-5)
 
Finally had the chance to play BD today and for long periods as well.

I'm sad to say I'm dropping Ivy. Played her for like 3 hours and can't handle the changes. Very sad about this as I had invested lots of hours for SC4 1.01 and 1.03 but she is not fun in BD at all for me.

Good luck to all you Ivy players and rock on and the best wishes from me. T_T
 
I've also played SCBD quite some time ago, but the reason I hadn't posted anything about it so far was mostly because Ivy didn't cause any special interest to me in this game. I won't drop her from my main though but I think SC4 Ivy is way better (and I'm not talking about being more powerfull, since I never cared If Ivy is powerful or not, I just play her because I like her style), because her weapon states have better fluidity and you can remain/switch through them with various ways.

At first I didn't care if Ivy was that powerful in BD as she was in sc4, but I really wanted her to have a better state-shifting-system. This of course has worsened, or if you like, has become more fixed, meaning that the game most likely tells you to follow certain patterns instead of playing how you like. Still as i said i don't think she'll be that bad and i'll surely continue playing her, but as Angrel-San already said: She is NOT very fun to play now...
 
dittO said:
At first I didn't care if Ivy was that powerful in BD as she was in sc4, but I really wanted her to have a better state-shifting-system. This of course has worsened, or if you like, has become more fixed, meaning that the game most likely tells you to follow certain patterns instead of playing how you like.
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Exactly! That's exactly how I feel about the changes. T_T

Well put!!!
 
I have to agree that she isn't very fun to play now. The fact alone that you cannot switch stances by holding A+K or B+K was enough to destroy a lot of the fun coming from the fluidity of SC4 Ivy. Ironically she became one of the most annoying characters to play now.
 
No one interested in BD Ivy? =( I'm in a process of completing the frame data. I will post it sometime soon, so far I did SWord frames, and I can say that there are more buffs than nerfs. Also, CL BB - sick. This this one of the best BB in the game. CL BB on hit->WP 3A (i18) beats i13 moves...

Also, found another small easter egg. SW 3B has another version, which is 33_99B, just like in SC4. It does more damage and more Soul Gauge damage (19 to CF vs 23 of regular 3B) I think it has slightly worse frames on hit though (+5 or so)
 
First time poster, long timer lurker. Ring, thanks for puttin' that data together. I find it's possible to stance shift like a dance if you're quick enough on the fingers with BD Ivy, so I'm lookin' forward to the good info on how she works in BD. I'd swear most of what's in 4 I'm able to pull off straight from the combo list, except in a few obvious cases like with WP 3A. Anywho, Ring, keep up the work and a few of us will be glad to see it.
 
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