Ivy BD Changes

Ugh, I have to say, the fact that you cannot switch stances by holding [A+K] or [B+K] is terribly frustrating. It makes some combos 10 times more difficult or close to impossible.

CH SW 44A, CL 4B, WP 66A+B or WP WS BB->SW6B8 for instance require precise timing or will fail.

Some good news: tip range WP 66B connects CL 3B on every character (it's easier on the larger ones obviously)

btw I will record some videos soon with the changes in BD. Is there anything specific you guys want to see?
 
Hi everyone, glad to join you! Just subscribded to ask few questions, since I don't have any opportunity to play BD.

Ring said:
btw I will record some videos soon with the changes in BD. Is there anything specific you guys want to see?
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Hi Ring, thanks a lot for all your work on the Ivy BD changes, really appreciated.
Things I'd like to see on your video:

- CL 1B,B+K : Reading your post saying that the move completely lost its pushback was the biggest disappointement to me, since it is an awesome move to force mid-range. I want to see it to be completely disgusted haha ( CL 1B,[A+K], B+K too if you can)

- CL 6B on Max Range and SW 6A: I'd like to see if the pushback is still the same.

- Her Step in Whip: since you said her step is now insane, I'd like to see it, especially her backdash's length and speed in this stance. Also, can you confirm that her step got improved in CL (and maybe record it too)? because I find it already insane in the current console version, so stepping in CL in BD seems crazy haha

- SW FC3B: please tell me the move hasn't changed at all. Same speed? Same range? I'd really appreciate to see it on max range just to be sure, since it's my favorite Low in her entire command list.

- SW 1K: just to see how much the range has been nerfed.

- Which moves destroy SG the most now?

I think that's all for now, if I forgot something I will post it later. Again, thanks for all!

By the way, did you try to combo CL 236BB after SW 66A+K on Counter Hit?
 
Hello Requiem, good to see you here =)

Requiem-fr said:
- CL 1B,B+K : Reading your post saying that the move completely lost its pushback was the biggest disappointement to me, since it is an awesome move to force mid-range. I want to see it to be completely disgusted haha ( CL 1B,[A+K], B+K too if you can)
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The pushback is completely gone. And CL 1B,[A+K],B+K doesn't work, the same goes for CL [A+B] 1B,B+K. When you hold A+B and do 1B,B+K you will only get 1B which is unsafe on block an negative on hit. They changed this with every move that has A+K or B+K in the input. For example, SW 66A and 66A+K. If you hold and do 66A+K you will get normal 66A...

Requiem-fr said:
- CL 6B on Max Range and SW 6A: I'd like to see if the pushback is still the same.
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Yes, it's the same. And CL 6B is still negative on hit =(

Requiem-fr said:
- Her Step in Whip: since you said her step is now insane, I'd like to see it, especially her backdash's length and speed in this stance. Also, can you confirm that her step got improved in CL (and maybe record it too)? because I find it already insane in the current console version, so stepping in CL in BD seems crazy haha
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Her step in WP and SW is now like CL in console version. CL step hasn't changed at all from what I noticed. Overall it's a great change, especially for Whip stance.

Requiem-fr said:
- SW FC3B: please tell me the move hasn't changed at all. Same speed? Same range? I'd really appreciate to see it on max range just to be sure, since it's my favorite Low in her entire command list.
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It hasn't changed. It's still positive on hit, safe on block, with nice range and "invisible".

Requiem-fr said:
- SW 1K: just to see how much the range has been nerfed.
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I recorded that. It may not seem that bad on the video, but when you actually play the game you immediately feel the difference.

Requiem-fr said:
- Which moves destroy SG the most now?
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I still haven't checked all SG damage changes, but obviously they nerfed her badly with the best SG damage tools:

SW 66B - 12
SW 22B - 20
SW 3B - 23
SW 1_2_3B+K - 12
SW 44K - 23
SW FC 3B - 19
SW WS B - 15

CL 3B - 16
CL 33B(mash) - 11,5
CL WS B - 50+ (christ, even after 50 blocked WS B's the orb was still blue...)


WP 6B+K - 20
WP 6B+K2_8 - 11
WP 66B - 19 (I also noticed that it is now i15 punishable...)
WP 6B - 20

Requiem-fr said:
By the way, did you try to combo CL 236BB after SW 66A+K on Counter Hit?
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Yes, it works for 60 dmg. In fact, it's the only reliable followup.

Here is the video. I apologize for the quality ( can't record straight to PC without a modded PSP). I didn't know what music to add (I recorded the vid without a sound) so I just used the same funny music that plays in the background of that stage.

Stuff from the video: CL 1B,B+K (no pushback), CL 6B and SW 6A pushback, the movement, SW FC 3B, SW 1K range, SW 66A and 66A+K, CH WP 3A combos, CL 66BA+K and 66B+K, CH WP 4B,B+K, WP 66B combo, WP FC 3~A+Bs, SS and CS on back turned opponent (90dmg)

[youtube= SC:BD Ivy changes]v6t0Go512RA[/youtube]
 
Thank you for the vids!!

Im disgusted WP 3A at close range doesnt even warrant an i13 K. It would atleast give +3 now. Her CL 66B series should be NH. Hopefully the + frames from new pokes give her good adv for mixup. Cos +3~6 for pokes are good.

SW 66B - 12
SW 22B - 20
SW 3B - 23
SW 1_2_3B+K - 12
SW 44K - 23
SW FC 3B - 19
SW WS B - 15

CL 3B - 16
CL 33B(mash) - 11,5
CL WS B - 50+ (christ, even after 50 blocked WS B's the orb was still blue...)
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SW 3B: What the F?
SW 1_2_3B+K: was 9. how awesome it was.
SW 44K: I hardly get to even spam this as much lol.

Sigh, with her SG move being that linear and her old SG tools weakened, hopefully better things will be discovered.
 
Well since you can use Active Purge at any moment to recover your Soul Gauge, we won't see CFs often now. They nerfed pretty much every character in this department, so Ivy isn't the only one. SW 1_2_3B+K and CL 33BBB still do good SG damage.

I'm bringing some great news.

+ WP 4A knocks down on CH, CL 236BB is guaranteed for a total of 55dmg (range dependant however) making WP 4A one of her best anti-step tools now, because it's safe, has huge range and it's + on NH. It also RO's and wall splats on CH.

Frame testing is a little frustrating. For example, I record on another Ivy WP AA->2B. When WP AA hits me, I do SW BB and it trades with WP 2B. But when I do K, WP 2B hits me. Also it trades with SW 1K which is faster than BB... I don't get this.
 
I like her mobility in that video but other than that, I dunno...not looking good.

Now her CF is nerfed as well. What the hell is this? It isn't like Ivy was dominating tourneys or was top tier or anything, she was upper mid to mid in 1.03.

I will never understand Project Soul. Hello...the logic to balancing characters is beefing the low tiers of previous games/versions and nerfing broken stuff of the top tiers. Not the good stuff, the broken stuff.

Just look at this, BD seems cool and all but Mina who was lower mid to low tier in 1.03, now reports are coming in that she is even worse in BD. On the other hand we have Mitsurugi, an easy and scrub friendly character throughout all the Soul series. He finally had a long overdue nerf from his former best character in the game in SC3:AE, to mid tier in 1.03 (and he still was ok but no longer extremely overpowered) and now seems extremely beefed up again and probably top tier once again. Favoritism much?

I will never understand the logic of easy and scrub friendly characters being extremely powerful and complex more advanced characters being lower in the tiers. No sense at all!!!
 
I believe she was god tier (1.02) to high-mid (1.03). I think only Hilde could match 1.02 Ivy in terms of retardness (WP 6[A+B], iWS B combos, WP 3A and other stuff like that) Ivy is still good in BD. It's a little to early to say, but she might as well become even better than SC4 Ivy.
 
Yeah, 1.01 Ivy was all sorts of broken, LOL!

About BD, I'm having the same vibe I had with the Yoshimitsu transition from 1.01 to 1.03...which isn't good. Time will tell. *crosses fingers*
 
More bad news! I began testing frame data (but it's not easy)

SW 1K is no longer i13. It's not guaranteed after CH SW 1A (it's not +16 on CH in BD, but +14) and that means SW 1K is slower than i14! It must be i15 now.

CL A+B is now -17 on block. That's just stupid, considering that it's still negative on hit, and the last hit still whiffs on many characters.
 
Wow thats sad man. Nothing of very little she has gained out
ways what she has lost. This is crazy because now Zas's is good/decent and
Ivy is being shot to hell(Im happy for one devistated for the other).
Hopefully if they do make a patch they only patch certain characters.

Can we get that 1.04/SCV thread started so we
can at least hope Namco comes through and listens
to us and get Ivy right.
 
Ya, with in terms of 1.04, its probably useless to ask for 1.03 things to return. probably should propose <new> things that arent too far fetched so lead patchers might think about. If we whine about 1.03, they might just shrugg it off and leave BD ivy as it is. Or not..... Well, a different angle than whine... A whine free thread LOL.
 
Ring said:
More bad news! I began testing frame data (but it's not easy)

SW 1K is no longer i13. It's not guaranteed after CH SW 1A (it's not +16 on CH in BD, but +14) and that means SW 1K is slower than i14! It must be i15 now.

CL A+B is now -17 on block. That's just stupid, considering that it's still negative on hit, and the last hit still whiffs on many characters.
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;'( I guess Namco decided her SW 1K was too cheap on counterhit. Lol.
-17 is a upset, she could do decent mixups with that too....... sigh.
 
SW 1K is the best kick move in SC4 imo. i13, with huge range, completely safe,positive on hit and coveres one side. It still is safe and positve on hit in BD, but the range and speed are slightly worse. I believe SW 3K has more range now.

Updated the first post with:

+ WP 4A knocks down on CH, CL 236BB is guaranteed for a total of 55dmg (range dependant). It also RO's and wall splats on CH.
- 1K has lesser range and it's i15 now. Also 1KBK is negative on hit.
- SE completely lost the tracking of every move, including BBB and B:6B:4B:6B:4B.

Also removed CH SW 1A, 1KB (61) combo, since it turned out that SW 1A does not give +16 on CH anymore (CL 1B,B+K can be blocked too)

Her framedata has been significantly changed. CL AA is now i13 from what I tested. It trades with SW 1A and SW 4B after I block CL6AK/WP 6A,B+K (+1) and beats K (i13). Also the frames on hit are great. The only weakness is probably the fact that it's still possible to duck CL AA in between on block and punish Ivy.

I will create a spreadsheet for Ivy BD frames soon.
 
Salman99hits aka Tosaka was kind enough to record iCS from the back for me =) You guys take a look at the damage, it's 109, not 110. Strange, but it's still good to know that it does more dmg on back turned opponent.

[youtube= BD Ivy iCS]5OjNLNVn5gk[/youtube]

Edit: @Davo, how come your posts automatically merge themself when you post two in a row? It never works for me, lol I don't wanna spam. Is there an option for this auto-merge?
 
Davo87 said:
Ya, with in terms of 1.04, its probably useless to ask for 1.03 things to return. probably should propose <new> things that arent too far fetched so lead patchers might think about. If we whine about 1.03, they might just shrugg it off and leave BD ivy as it is. Or not..... Well, a different angle than whine... A whine free thread LOL.
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I get what your saying, but 1.04 hasnt happend yet so why not take a shot
or hope they hear us out for SCV.
Glad we got some love in BD but it just seems like we get the shaft every other game
2 good,3 but a change in gameplay that toke time to adjusted,4 huge change toke time but we made it shine with some elbow grease and now BD we back to shit on our boats. Break out the cloath and plosh,1.04,SCV hoping for a solid character that only can go up from the base in SC4 not down. Thnx everyone for posting all the BD stuff know i have complained about alot of it but thank you for at least letting us know what maybe ahead.
 
@Davo, how come your posts automatically merge themself when you post two in a row? It never works for me, lol I don't wanna spam. Is there an option for this auto-merge?
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If your second post is within certain number of hrs (I dunno), then it becomes automerge. Ofcos if u post it on the nxt day, its a new post.

I like the 2p angle aswell. Gold armour + the bum = sexy.

Also removed CH SW 1A, 1KB (61) combo, since it turned out that SW 1A does not give +16 on CH anymore (CL 1B,B+K can be blocked too)
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Hmm, so its likely she is getting better frames on hit while removing/toning down godly stuff like i13 1K, CH SW 1A and more shakeable stuns. SW 3B> 1K or CL33BB > 1K used to be a frametrap and that kills or trades some chars WS options, guess no chars should get tracking, i13 mids while safe. I want her perks back!! I dont want i13 highs LOL.

I will create a spreadsheet for Ivy BD frames soon.
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Thats nice! Just dont stress urself until some official framedata as that may change things slightly.
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====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
I get what your saying, but 1.04 hasnt happend yet so why not take a shot
or hope they hear us out for SCV.
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Ya, Im curious what whey work with from the base of SCIV altho its likely to be a mixture with BD or totally imo. SC4 has stuff coming from SC3 for sure, aka the SW and WP stance system they employed. Stances are great fun when they are decent in what its meant to do but not broken and also not made useless or less rewarding. I dont play Maxi, but he has these vulnerabilities in the stances that turn ppl off, which Im not sure if they are addressed in BD.

I dont mind ppl making a new thread just dedicated to SCV or 1.04 Ivy. Just hope it doesnt turn into a post where we toss things in that may be to wishful or simply reinstating what we didnt like about BD, which is said in this thread. What would be good is if ppl form conceptual ideas of how the *NEW* ivy should play be designed, while also giving her weaknesses that we can accept but not downgraded to the point we feel ripped off and uninspired like BD, (I shouldnt really top shit over BD when I havent played, but yeh.)

If they were to make SCV, what route should they take? What aspect from: SC2? SC3? SC4?
 
Davo87 said:
If your second post is within certain number of hrs (I dunno), then it becomes automerge. Ofcos if u post it on the nxt day, its a new post.

I like the 2p angle aswell. Gold armour + the bum = sexy.
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Thanks. Too bad it doesn't auto merge all the time. I can merge posts normally, but then it doesn't display as new post, so people can miss it easily.

Both CS/SS have new angles when performed on BT opponent, it's not only 2p. That weird CS angle is actually a glitch from SC4, I was surprised that Namco decided to use it in BD. It happened to me once, when I grabbed teleporting Cervantes. Ivy tracked him down with iCS behind her back and that strange angle appeared.

Davo87 said:
Hmm, so its likely she is getting better frames on hit while removing/toning down godly stuff like i13 1K, CH SW 1A and more shakeable stuns. SW 3B> 1K or CL33BB > 1K used to be a frametrap and that kills or trades some chars WS options, guess no chars should get tracking, i13 mids while safe. I want her perks back!! I dont want i13 highs LOL.
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So they could have made it unsafe then =P Setsuka still has her i13 6K mid, that gives her a 60dmg combo on CH (not to mention, she can hit-confirm it while Ivy can't hitconfirm SW 1KB on CH)

SW 1A is still godly. Even though they nerfed the frames on CH, you can still land a guaranteed CL A,A+K neck grab for 58dmg, which is only 2 dmg less than SC4's CH SW 1A, CL 1B,B+K, SW 214K combo.

Davo87 said:
Thats nice! Just dont stress urself until some official framedata as that may change things slightly.
Click to expand...
I will try to emulate Link's old spreadsheet. I won't fill most of the fields though, just the stuff I am finding out. Hopefull we will be able to complete it. Am I the only Ivy player who actually has the game?
 
Added new stuff to the first page:

- CL -> SE switch is gone.

+ WP 6AA received both a buff and a nerf. The good part is that it wall splats on CH often now (it rarely happens in SC4), and near wall CL 236BB is easily connectable. The bad part is, CH 6A not +2 on CH anymore. It's more like -10 now. Also, WP 2B+K does not relaunch anymore after CH WP 6AA.

  • New combos
CH WP 4B,B+K, CL 22_88B - 53
CH WP 4B,B+K, CL 9B - 56
CH WP 4A, CL 236BB - 55
CH WP 6AA, CL 236BB (near wall only) - 83
WP 66B, CL 3B, CL 236BB - 71
CH SW 3B, iWS B, 6B8 - 74*

  • CL wall combos
3B (wall), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 105 (+24)
4A (wall/max range), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 104 (new)
CH 1A (wall), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 111 (new)
66K (wall), WP 3, SE K (wall), SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 130 (+30)

  • SW wall combos
A+B (wall), 214K - 63 (- 41)
[A+B] (wall), 214K - 97 (-33)
66B (wall), 66A+K, CL 236BB - 95 (new)
66A (wall), 1KB - 70 (+3)
66B (wall), 66A, 1KB - 97 +

  • WP wall combos
WS B (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B JF - 94 (+24)
6B (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 76 (+16)
44K (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 75 (+15)
CH 4K (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 120 (+30)
CH 4A (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 80 (new)

  • WP wall combos
WS B (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B JF - 94 (+24)
6B (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 76 (+16)
44K (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 75 (+15)
CH 4K (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 120 (+30)
CH 4A (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 80 (new)

5hit JF does a lot more damage in combos =)
 
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