Ivy Frame Data discussion

Ring said:
66A has been nerfed in the patch as well. In 1.01 Ivy could not punish it because of the masisve pushback on guard. Now the pushback is gone and she always gets a free 4B.
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I have difficulty following up 4B with anything substantial. Any suggestions on what's best to do after punishing with 4B?
 
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KineticClash said:
I have difficulty following up 4B with anything substantial. Any suggestions on what's best to do after punishing with 4B?
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It's + 4 on hit a lot of moves with frame trap after that, for example BB, 66B (or 66B BE), 6KB, 1B BE etc
 
If you mean after 4B, then yes very often. Try to feel out you opponent if they're agressive go for 6kb if they turtle grab or go low...you know.
 
Just for reference, here is some tests I ran for Eli on the 1.03 Patch:
Can Ivy punish Mistu B+K with CE (in a corner)? No.
What the damage on Ivy 2A+B, is it still 22? From the front, yes. From the sides is 23, and from the back is 24.
Is Ivy 2A+B punishable by Alpha Pat CE? Yes.
Is Ivy A+B punishable by an i18 move? Yes. I tested using 4K from Alpha Patroklos.
Is Ivy A+BA punishable by Alpha pat CE? Yes.
Does Ivy A+BA on hit then Ivy 2A+B trade with an i15move? I used Alpha Patroklos to test this. I tested 6K, which traded with 2A+B.
 
A couple things I noticed while going over Ivy frame data (the soul wiki frame data. Idk how accurate it is)...

1) 22_88B BE is negative on block despite it having the blue guard crush animation? Remind me what the point of this move is! Lol

2) WR B is +9 frames on hit. That's one of the highest frame advantages she gets! Plus, I bet it's pretty good with killing back dash. So if you land a WR B, CS will beat out all the opponent's attacks (excluding Apat's CE).

3) Ivy is wayyyy less safe than I thought she was. 11_77B is her only safe low it seems, and who ever gets hit with that?? It seems as though CS, A+G, and CE are absolute necessities for Ivy users.

P.S. is CE the best use of meter? I know 1B BE is good for punishing, and maybe 66B BE to kill backdash. But why use meter on that when you need to scare people into ducking her CE?
 
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22_88B BE is +12 on block. I think there's a typo in the wiki frame data because it has the same frames as 66B BE. So yeah, 22_88B BE has a lot of advantage on block, but it's possibly her most useless Brave Edge attack. Nowadays, everyone JG or GI the follow-up... On hit it should give more damage. The combo is barely 60 dmg. It should be around 70. It can be used as a quick whiff punisher but 22_88(B) combo does more damage.

I need to use more 11_77B more. I keep forgetting this move exists. Even if it's slow, it's completely safe and hits grounded opponent.

I think you should save meter for CE and 1B BE. Occasional 6B8 BE (especially for a wall combo) and 66B BE (for frame traps and 22_88A CH). Don't waste it on 22_88B BE and SS unless you need the damage to kill off the opponent (sometimes opponent doesn't have much life left, and when he's expecting a B throw, SS is a good idea)
 
Yea some frame data has to be rechecked, as I took them from the Future Press Book. 22_88B on hit leads to a few tech traps, if they forward tech FC1B with catch, if they side tech throws will catch but they can still duck. But I think 2a will catch all except back tech. If the opponent stays on ground the bK is guaranteed.
 
Eli123s said:
Yea some frame data has to be rechecked, as I took them from the Future Press Book. 22_88B on hit leads to a few tech traps, if they forward tech FC1B with catch, if they side tech throws will catch but they can still duck. But I think 2a will catch all except back tech. If the opponent stays on ground the bK is guaranteed.
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I usually use 2k there... I haven't seen anyone successfully block it yet and it'll hit grounded.

After 2k hits, I will buffer CS... that catches people off guard a lot too.
 
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If I recall correctly, it can be escaped by some characters even at close range. It's a character specific combo.

Eli123s said:
WR B+K the more I used this move the more I start to love this. Even in SC4 I would always use christmas tree, even though it was unsafe as hell, I just love the laugh, when they took out the laugh I didn't want to us it anymore. But after talking with ring I am really liking this move. So now I feel the move is fine.
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I found out that this move is actually -14, not -13 like the guide said. It's stab punishable =( one frame but it makes all the difference. Not quite as spammable as I thought...
 
Ok...that WR B cannot possibly be +9/10...it forces crouch but I cannot follow this move up with anything without getting hit out of it. If anyone uses this move what do you follow it up with...I thought it could be semi frame trap material but something is wrong...
 
Ring said:
I found out that this move is actually -14, not -13 like the guide said. It's stab punishable =( one frame but it makes all the difference. Not quite as spammable as I thought...
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I know this post is really old, but I was curious and testing this. If you hold backwards for the whole duration of the move and both hits are blocked, not even 236:B can punish it. Unless walls or edges prevent pushback or movement, it becomes safe to stabs in a similar way 214B does at tip range.
 
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