Ivy Videos

To prevent stepping you have AA, 2A, 3A, 6A, 4A, 44A, 66A, 66K, 2A+K/22_88K, WS A, iCS or even BB. Against 4B you have 2B+K/3B+K or 9B for example. So it's not like you don't have tools to deal with him in SW. I believe the problem lies in your gameplan.
 
out of what ring says I'd keep AA, 2A, 66A, 66K for anti step. Those are gonna have the ranges you want and are much harder to avoid than the others. anti 4B is exactly what I use on mitsu though. I'm also a big fan of 7B when I don't know what to do. I can hope for a poke or block and hope the spacing made me safe. If it hits i have options in both SW and CL. Also 2A+K!!! I think it goes under 4B, but you can usually do it on reaction and he'll run into it and it just beats a lot of his tricks in general.

I avoid 4K on mitsu though. It's on of my favorite attacks but its just not a good idea and his 4B usually avoids it.
 
Ring said:
To prevent stepping you have AA, 2A, 3A, 6A, 4A, 44A, 66A, 66K, 2A+K/22_88K, WS A, iCS or even BB. Against 4B you have 2B+K/3B+K or 9B for example. So it's not like you don't have tools to deal with him in SW. I believe the problem lies in your gameplan.
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I don't feel comfortable trying to guess in that manner by throwing out 2B+K/3B+K, or even 9B. Also, I feel as if some of these horizontals are counter productive on hit, because they force the opponent back. Great on block though. 3A is questionable, it only catches one side. 66A can actually be stepped and it's kinda slow.


I just wish I didn't have to deal with so many variables to score 30 damage off a poke, something like Lizardman 66A or a WP 3A in SW would be nice.

Also, a better WS A in CL.
 
Xephukai said:
Where's Teflon's offline videos!?!?!?
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Man you should give him a break with the offline vids now. Sure he promised them, he doesn't have them obviously so just leave it alone now. We could ask for every online player's offline vids and few would be able to produce any vids that we actually cared about.

Plenty of people have stated that they would like to play offline but there is no scene. Can't really do anything about that. Take you for example Xeph. You pretty much only get to play against your boy inksplatter (hope that's his name, I forget) that lives down the street. The closest serious scene to you would be either Sacramento, CA or Las Vegas, NV and both of those scenes only have a handful of players. Are you willing to drive that far just to cap some vids? Probably not and nobody will blame you for that. Let's just leave it at the fact that Teflon isn't getting to see what the game is really supposed to be played like, same with a lot of online players. A shame? Yes. Can we really do anything about it? Not really.
 
Whooops. When I read "Ivy Videos" I was thinking of a different kind of video. /walks away slowly*
 
Nofacekill3r said:
I don't feel comfortable trying to guess in that manner by throwing out 2B+K/3B+K, or even 9B. Also, I feel as if some of these horizontals are counter productive on hit, because they force the opponent back. Great on block though. 3A is questionable, it only catches one side. 66A can actually be stepped and it's kinda slow.


I just wish I didn't have to deal with so many variables to score 30 damage off a poke, something like Lizardman 66A or a WP 3A in SW would be nice.

Also, a better WS A in CL.
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Hmm 66A is steppable only at close range. This applies to many moves such as CL 66A or even LM 66A. I think SW 66A is great, it's i20 like Mitsu b:A, does a lot of damage on CH, TCs and it's only -14 (safe at certain range against most characters)

I don't think that Ivy is as steppable as many people think. In fact she can be character with most anti-step tools in the game, considering how many horizontals and how many homing verticals she has at her disposal.
You're right about CL WSA though, but let's not forget CH WS A combo does 90 dmg! It's something that you don't see in this game often. If I remember well CL WS A is SC3's WP WS A. In SC3 the first hit was safe on block (or -10) and advantage on CH but... no one used it, because the combo itself was just as risky but it also did crappy damage. Now you still risk, but the reward is much greater.

Mitsu's 4B is problem not only for Ivy but for many characters. I also hate that move especially because sometimes it tracks me after I wait for it and step to whiff punish and it still hits me, wtf.
 
I generally like the push back of SW horizontals. Sure they rarely leave any combo potential but if you go to CL with it you can do some neat pressure. CL is better for step anyway.

OH also! You can 6A+B if you spot 4B. Lots of damage if it connects.
 
Ring said:
Hmm 66A is steppable only at close range. This applies to many moves such as CL 66A or even LM 66A. I think SW 66A is great, it's i20 like Mitsu b:A, does a lot of damage on CH, TCs and it's only -14 (safe at certain range against most characters)

I don't think that Ivy is as steppable as many people think. In fact she can be character with most anti-step tools in the game, considering how many horizontals and how many homing verticals she has at her disposal.
You're right about CL WSA though, but let's not forget CH WS A combo does 90 dmg! It's something that you don't see in this game often. If I remember well CL WS A is SC3's WP WS A. In SC3 the first hit was safe on block (or -10) and advantage on CH but... no one used it, because the combo itself was just as risky but it also did crappy damage. Now you still risk, but the reward is much greater.

Mitsu's 4B is problem not only for Ivy but for many characters. I also hate that move especially because sometimes it tracks me after I wait for it and step to whiff punish and it still hits me, wtf.
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Yeah, I generally find that CL WS A is not worth the risk, because it actually does have problems catching step, and for some reason it often functions like a high, and people can duck or TC under it.

I guess the main problem with SW 66A is that like you said, it's only really steppable at close range, but that's probably where you're going to want to be with Ivy anyway. Let's not forget SW 66A doesn't actually have a lot of range.

I don't get why CL 214B has to be SO risky and people like Mitsu and Xianghua get something that generally acommplishes the same task, but with less risk. They could at least make it + on hit or throw SE a bone.

Mitsu can spam 4B like a retard against Ivy. Even if you predict it (which means the other player is already in your head, lowering your offensive power), it can still catch step for some reason like you said.

Also, 2KB risk/reward is almost equal for Ivy/Mitsu (unless in WP for a 66B) - there is no reason for him not to spam this. I hate this matchup.
 
I agree with both you guys about characters backwards evading pokes like Mitsu 4B and X 44B. I don't know why in this game those moves track so well but it is fucking annoying. Yunseong is the same way, Cervy 44B also tracks very well....just another part of the game engine they changed from SC3 to SC4 that I fucking hate.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
Yeah, I generally find that CL WS A is not worth the risk, because it actually does have problems catching step, and for some reason it often functions like a high, and people can duck or TC under it.

I guess the main problem with SW 66A is that like you said, it's only really steppable at close range, but that's probably where you're going to want to be with Ivy anyway. Let's not forget SW 66A doesn't actually have a lot of range.

I don't get why CL 214B has to be SO risky and people like Mitsu and Xianghua get something that generally acommplishes the same task, but with less risk. They could at least make it + on hit or throw SE a bone.

Mitsu can spam 4B like a retard against Ivy. Even if you predict it (which means the other player is already in your head, lowering your offensive power), it can still catch step for some reason like you said.

Also, 2KB risk/reward is almost equal for Ivy/Mitsu (unless in WP for a 66B) - there is no reason for him not to spam this. I hate this matchup.
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Can't you CL A+B[A+K] 2KB on block or non-KND? May not have played that much recently but I remember 2KB was more risk than reward against Ivy in terms of damage. o.o;
 
Sora said:
Can't you CL A+B[A+K] 2KB on block or non-KND? May not have played that much recently but I remember 2KB was more risk than reward against Ivy in terms of damage. o.o;
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2KB pushes Ivy back too far, and it causes A+B,A+K to whiff the second hit.

Also, I did say *almost* the same risk reward.

2KB - high 40s, low 50s

Ivy SW 22B- mid 50s
CL 3B - low 50s
WP 66B - low 60s (yay)
 
Umm 2KB punishments:

SW: 2B+K, 214K (68 dmg) or 22B, 214K (57 dmg)
CL: 3B, SW 6B8 (55dmg)
WP: 66B, CL1B,B+K, SW 214K (65dmg)

KrayzieCD said:
I agree with both you guys about characters backwards evading pokes like Mitsu 4B and X 44B. I don't know why in this game those moves track so well but it is fucking annoying. Yunseong is the same way, Cervy 44B also tracks very well....just another part of the game engine they changed from SC3 to SC4 that I fucking hate.
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Well at least X 44B can be punished hard on block, unlike Mitsu 4B which is like -14? =/ Ivy's CL214B was -14 too in 1.02, they had to do something about it...
 
Ring said:
Umm 2KB punishments:

SW: 2B+K, 214K (68 dmg) or 22B, 214K (57 dmg)
CL: 3B, SW 6B8 (55dmg)
WP: 66B, CL1B,B+K, SW 214K (65dmg)


Well at least X 44B can be punished hard on block, unlike Mitsu 4B which is like -14? =/ Ivy's CL214B was -14 too in 1.02, they had to do something about it...
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Yeah, I did not know about SW 2B+K as a punish. Are you sure it always leaves them in range for 214K?

I guess I'm just jealous that I don't get massive 2KB punishment like:

Sophitia
Mitsu
Hilde
Kilik
Cervantes
Algol

,etc.

:(


I just need to accept 2KB as a fact of life. 4B, however, is unjust, especially considering what they did to our 214B...
 
Well, it is not that bad if you compare her to BD Ivy :p

It takes a little practice with 2B+K punishment so I suggest you to try it out in training mode. The combo works with no problem, unless you block 2BK at closest range possible, then 2B+K will whiff. But it's easy to see and react in time with a different punishment. At max range 214K won't work so you will have to switch to CL and do 236BB instead. As i said, it can take a little bit of practice but you won't have much problem with it. You can also use SW 2B+K, CL 236BB combo but keep in mind that it does slightly less damage (61)
 
Before videos from Cannes are posted, here is a pretty good match between Rigel and I. All of our tournament matches are like this. We actually win the same number of rounds at the end of the videos (the videos get better as the FT5 progresses). Anyway, I still left some punishing unpunished and left some free follow-ups on the board; I don't know what's wrong with me lately (I was getting better, lol--now it's back to trashville). When I don't have my buffer working exactly the way I want it, it's like some sort of psychological kryptonite, and I play worse.

Here is my problem: when my opponent eats the command throws over and over, I get amazingly predictable. If you get the chance, check out all three videos (I play better in the "second set", lol).

Anyway, thanks to InsaneKhent for posting the videos. So let me get to it:

Ivy vs Cassandra
http://www.youtube.com/user/InsaneKhent#p/u/10/S_DReWDEBkg

Ivy vs Cassandra
http://www.youtube.com/user/InsaneKhent#p/u/9/-YD9cIMBkMk

Ivy vs Cassandra
http://www.youtube.com/user/InsaneKhent#p/u/3/ZfQ1wOqsDeE
 
Against Cass' moves:

B+K, AA or even 1K irrc interupts. 7B?

FC1B, this move goes under a lot of mids. CL 214B or step. Tho Im sure Ivy has more mids that work. CL B or 2B?

Break B nearly all the time against Cassy. <frantic breaking against command throws>

Becareful with SW BB as the second hit whiff a lot when Cass goes into ducking state. Sometimes other moves like SW 3B, CL1BB+K is a better substitute which u did towards the 2nd vid.

Rigel shouldnt duck against Ivy when she's going for SW FC 1B and A+G mixup. Just break A.


Dont train ur opponent to break CS. Train them to duck CS. If they dont duck thats when you do something else. You do play better as ur Ivy has more variety to it then just CS. :)
 
Davo:

As always, a big thanks. I definitely need a bit more help; I didn’t play particularly well in that video. I know I have played better than that. Anyway, Cassandra doesn;’t seem to give me the same problems that she used to give me in SC3. I’m not intimidated by her one bit. This match was very much like the tournament matches that we play. I have completely memorized Cassandra’s movelist where she can be punished. What I have not done is memorize where she can be interrupted or look at strategies that Cassandra players use (as is the case with damned-near every other character, lol). Recently, I have been pretty good at taking my free damage, but, when I land the command throws on an opponent so easily as I do against Rigel, I get really caught in patterns. And here is the obtuse part: I already know it and can’t help myself, lol…


B+K, AA or even 1K irrc interupts. 7B?

That wasn’t 7B I kept trying; it was 7K and 9K. I don’t know why I kept using it after he interrupted it over and over (there is that pattern I was talking about).

Break B nearly all the time against Cassy. <frantic breaking against command throws>

Yeah, I break B often, but her command throw is a bitch to break for some odd reason. It was like that it SC3, too. Later in the match I was getting timing for it much better though. In the last few matches, I was determined not to let him grab me. But yeah, breaking B is the best thing to do. I was throwing in a few A breaks to see if Rigel would mix it up…


Becareful with SW BB as the second hit whiff a lot when Cass goes into ducking state. Sometimes other moves like SW 3B, CL1BB+K is a better substitute which u did towards the 2nd vid.

Ivy”s BB can really get on my nerves. It whiffs on quite a few characters—especially Voldo. I started to get away from CL 1BB+K for some odd reason. I tought I was getting too predictable, ironically enough. But looking back over the videos now, I should have kept it because I was wearing him out with it.


Rigel shouldnt duck against Ivy when she's going for SW FC 1B and A+G mixup. Just break A.

Yeah, part of this is that there are some players still unfamiliar with this, so I don’t know what to do to get them to stop. I guess SW 22B is probably the answer. But often what I do when I duck is give my opponent SW3B twice to be annoying because I automatically assume that he knows CS is probably coming. Suggestions?


Dont train ur opponent to break CS. Train them to duck CS. If they dont duck thats when you do something else. You do play better as ur Ivy has more variety to it then just CS. :)

Let me tell anyone who plays Ivy and want to come to the northern Atlantic East Coast region to play SC4: I have hit the opponents with CS so much that they are all experts at breaking CS. Seriously, I don’t know how I can land one anymore. What I’m struggling with is what to do next.

Davo, I’m trying to get better, but, recently, I think I am starting to come to the conclusion that I’m getting to the peak of what my game is going to be. I always felt like I could get better, but I’m not so sure anymore. I see so many problems with Ivy—well, my approach to Ivy. I promised that I wouldn’t quit, but…lol.
 
350: Have you ever tried to "abandon" moves from your game? It's just an idea I had recently when I was messing around with playing with the CPU.

The CPU is a bad practice target because it always gets hit by random stuff that players would NEVER get hit with (CL A+B[A+K] comes to mind; CPU almost always never blocks the second low). So I abandoned moves that took advantage of this. Then I started noticing my game kept changing more as I tried my best -not- to use that move. Then I started to abandon more moves. My goal right now is to pull an Alex J. where I can win using only 4 solid moves haha.

Granted, the CPU is still not a substitute for real people (but I have no choice right now), but your game will definitely change once you take your own bread and butter out of the picture.

My two cents; take it how you will.
 
Thanks Sora. I will definitely keep that in mind. By the way, use CL A+B~A+K to whiff and step punish and you will catch a "live" opponent every time. It works like a charm.
 
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