jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away players?

Haeven

[09] Warrior
First off, I apologize if everyone already knows about this. Or, if I'm wrong ^^. I know I can be wrong; I'm certainly not an expert :P.

That being said, on with the discussion!

We can use jf dash right after we block or get hit by an attack to close in on the enemy as long as we are standing after the attack. Tap forward as soon as the block or hit animation has ended :P. We can jf dash whether we are blocking a regular attack or the ones that look a bit cooler (guard crush). One time, it was quite funny. I've been blocking this slow combo from nightmare and I was jf dashing after every single block during that combo. Every single attack failed to push me away and I kept close almost all the time ^^. I wanted to do this again and again (lol) I didn't care that my soul gage was turning red xD.

Cons.
Don't do this too often; opponents can stop their combo in anticipation and grab you as you dash forward. So it's wise to do it only when you have a decent block advantage. But you don't need the opponent's attack to be unsafe. jf dash is so fast you only need few frames of block advantage to let it rip!

Pros.
Perhaps those Hilde players should think twice before they charge hit you. If you block a charged attack, jf dash forward to gain pressure. What are they going to do next? Hit you with another charged attack soon after in order to push you back again? Not going to happen (I think). So hopefully, you'll be able to stay close for another few seconds. Some charge moves cause rock to crouch when blocked. I don't think we can jf dash when crouched (try dashing as you recover from crouch..all I got so far was regular dash O_O"). But moves that cause us to crouch aren't infamous for knocking players back anyway ^^.

jf dash after blocking may add/retain a lot of pressure when used in the right way.

I repeat, I may be wrong about some/all of this stuff because I don't have serious offline competition. So confirmations would be nice. And for those who haven't used this yet, try it and see if it's really a jf dash. xD
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I dunno if what you're describing is jf dash unless this is something that others characters seriously can't do.... for example... rock can do jf dash after his throws because he's the only character with Rock's throws that gives him THAT much frame advantage... this is kinda rare for most characters.. but now all... and even if they do have that much advantage.. they might now be within range (like NM's B-throw...).

As for doing 'jf dash' after blocking an attack or getting hit by one... how is it different compared to if i was using another character and stepping forward during block advantage?

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I do not just try dashing during block advantage. I tap 6 right at the end of the block stun when I'm blocking an attack. If I do not time the tap correctly Rock performs a normal dash. When I do it correctly, rock would burst forward very nicely (I'd block a long range attack from around the tip of Nightmare's sword and end up at his face). I was also able to do it sometimes after blocking lows or after attacks that make me crouch when blocking :). Sometimes the dash seems to be much faster and have a longer range than normal. I think everyone should try it and check if I'm right. And then post here.

I believe other characters have slower dash-after-block and shorter dash range. I haven't tried jf dash after block with all other chars--only Taki, Talim and Nightmare. It was harder to perform jf dash after block with Talim and Taki as compared with Rock. Talim and Taki's jf dash was much poorer than Rock's. Nightmare's jf dash was decent but still Rock's the best so far. So rock seems to be unique in this department. :)


This move is not ideal when the opponent is berserking. We'd have to keep blocking oncomeing attacks as we burst forward and that'd eat away at our soul gauge (interrupting attacks/GI should be used in this case). jf dash after block should be used when the opponent is more careful when using attacks or turling.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

well to put it simply....if you're in throw range, no need to dash, if u need to get in do the dash. That's the only use it'll have vs standing opponent
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I thought some people said that it's a near impossible task to get back into close range against Hilde players. Using this dash, its almost as simple as BOOM you're in. So, despite that being the only use, the dash can be very important.
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Heaven:
it's an impossible task to get close to hilde if the player sucks.

-LAU
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

the timing.
the tapping of 6 defines how well and how fast the dash is done. You must have an idea of the recovery of Rock's moves.
I just dubbed it jf dash for clarity ;)
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Yeah like I was saying earlier (I wasn't too clear earlier). If you tap 6 normally, you'll dash forward a pretty good distance a bit slowly. But pay close attention whenever you're blocking an attack. The moment Rock recovers from his block stun (not after he recovers, when he recovers), tap 6. If you do that very well, he'll burst forward pretty far and very quickly. Usually all I get is the normal dash. That's why I was so unsure whether I was right or wrong. But sometimes, I'd get this huge dash. I believe it's the timing.

I was even able to do jf dash with Talim. But with Talim, her dashing is much much weaker than Rock's and much harder to time properly.

If the hilde player is attacking with moves that push rock back again and again (so many charge moves xD), then rock may have a hard time getting close. Even if you're a good rock player, holding down 6 after blocking a move isn't always a good idea. Well, a good rock player may not do that; he may try using an attack that moves rock forward. But even then, Rock might be too far back to connect. You might whiff and ohoh. Consider the following vid:


The rock player was able to hold his own against Hilde but often you'll see him trying to run forward after blocking instead of dash. Running is too slow. He got nailed before he got close to hilde. Either that or it was too easy for Hilde to duck Rock's grab after the run.
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

i'm not sure your 'dash' will change the result of this rock's players match...

the reason he lost is because.

1) he doesn't know rock's combos....
2) like 90% of the players, he doesn't realize this is a 3D game.

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I appreciate your input here Lau.

Hilde is top tier and that Hilde player knows how to play well. So, in order to beat her, that Rock player definitely needed to know all of his moves + know how to sidestep/move around. We can't just use one technique over and over again in order to beat good players with high tier characters. We gotta know everything. So, it is clear that just knowing how to jf dash will not grant us victory. I understand that combining all known techniques + knowing how to use the ring + using df dash when it counts will help us gain victory.

Sure jf dash after block may not be enough to give that Rock a victory (the one in the video). However jf dash does help. It's just something that ppl might want to add to their arsenal of moves. That's my main message.
 

babalook

[10] Knight
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

wow that cervantes in the video was absolutley god like im just star stuck by his level of play god i need to work harder to get that good.
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

wow that cervantes in the video was absolutley god like im just star stuck by his level of play god i need to work harder to get that good.
lol yeah he was doing better with Rock. xD
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I don't know if i'll call your 'technique' jf dash but i'll try it out today

i usually do this regardless of character... but once again will give this a go to see if it's something only Rock (or few characters) can do.

jf dash was refer to the dash after certain throws/ground throw breaks because it's kinda unique to him or a very few characters only... but this dash seems like a common move for all characters

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I am happy that Lau is trying this out :). But don't just take Lau's and my word for it (whatever that result is). Try it yourselves and see if it works for you. If everyone posts their results here, it would be appreciated.

And i gotta add in something that may be pretty obvious. Lag does ruin my ability to do this dash. When I use the CRT TV, I'll do the dash sometimes. But when I go on my LCD (it has a wopping 110ms lag haha), it's almost never ever done. I only see the normal dash on that LCD.
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

update.

I gotta admit :P ; the only reason I kept saying that jfdash after a block may be false is because I have some minor self confidence problem. Jf dashing after blocking is as real as daylight. For example, nightmare used 236B and, after I blocked it from a far distance away, I dashed and grabbed him while he's in the middle of another move (another funny moment =P). This is very hard to do using a normal dash (if you happen to miss the timing). Also, while battling against AI, the AI sometimes attempts guard impact when I use the jf dash even though I did not use any attacks after dashing. This means that the makers of sc4 probably coded in the jfdash after block as a threatening move and coded in some sort of flinching reflex (when someone is anticipating a move and accidentally GIs when the opponent moves suddenly) xD. However, the AI does not use guard impact if I normally dash towards it. If it sounds ridiculous, try it yourself. =D

(I used very hard AI)

Sometimes, I jf dash while the opponent is still at disadvantage: they're gonna eat some sort of grab.

Another thing I'd like to add. It's much easier to jfdash after more powerful moves instead of weaker/faster moves like BB---Probably because stricter timing is required.

The only reason I bring this up is because I want to see Rock go up in the tier list. So dash after blocking against whomever you see fit and do not abuse. Great luck to you.
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Heaven:

i just think this isn't really a jf dash..... it seems like all characters can do it

however I think this strategy is much needed for Rock players in general

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I think I understand what you are saying, Lau. Even with a nice dash, Rock does not have any more frame advantage after blocking than anyone else. So, only when frame advantage is concerned, Rock is not unique.

But people have stated earlier (correct me if I'm wrong) that jf dash occurs when you tap 6 soon after an event (eg. Rock's attack). The jf dash is faster and has longer range than the regular dash. If that is true, it is not only about frame advantage, it also about the dash being better than normal if you get the timing right.

The point of this post was that, I think the jf dash occurs if you do it after blocking (after some of the stronger attacks). Perhaps the moving characters made me think some of the dashes were better than normal or may be the jf dash does exist. Either way, I was able to close the gap between Rock and opponent dramatically during the - frames of the opponent's attack after blocking. Was pretty neat. Sometimes the opponent has not even finished the animation of the attack by the time I got close. Rock's uniquely fast and long ranged dash gives him an edge when using this strategy even if Rock does not have any more frame advantage than anyone else. Because Rock's a close range char just like other close range chars but the dash helps him get closer, faster than anyone else using this strategy.

Cassandra and Nightmare also have nice dashes after blocking but Rock's still the best. Talim, Taki and Setsuka's dash seem to be better when done after blocking but they're nothing like Cass's, NM's and Rock's.

This dashing strategy is awesome because I'd be dashing full speed as soon as or even before the animation of blocking ends (I'd start dashing before Rock returns to normal, vertical stance after blocking an attack...or so it seems). Pretty cool and useful (I'm glad you acknowledge this lau).

How does everyone else feel about this dashing strategy? Did anyone end up using it in a match?