JGing Tech Catches

[Real_Bojack]

I just hate how the mechanics on this game are completely against Siegfried. The mechanics seem like they were literally made just to make him suck. I don't see the point of the back dash nerf when I couldn't even back dash in the first place. JG completely destroys him, despite what others say "Do mix ups, I'll give you advice about your character even though I don't know anything about him." Sieg has no good mix ups, they're complete trash or the risk/reward is completely against you. Well this isn't a Sieg discussion so I'm going to leave it at that.

On topic: JG removing the moron strats would be nice, it would also be nice if it had a smaller window so people can't JG all of Sieg's options from neutral with the same timing. >.<

I understand your aggravation about Sieg since I play Raph. But jg is already a 4 frame window right? Can't get much smaller than that. I guess if you want Sieg to win you'll have to try to work in delays or something to bait jg but you are right that that's already a risky idea in itself and makes a lot more work for Sieg. I would much rather never see jg again and a return to regular GI system instead of what we have.

 

[Solo]

Solo I have to somewhat disagree with u about the JG on siegfried...and ggs earlier had to hop off. But siegfried is not all easy to JG..sure u can Jg 3B but when siegfried mixes it up with 1k, 22A and throws the process is alot harder to JG him. And don't forget JG is useless against his IAG:A because it can't be AA or BB punished on JG not totally sure tho. But i say out of all these 3 chars nightmare,astaroth and siegfried. Siegfried is the hardest to just guard while astaroth imo is the easiest of the three.

I would agree with that but JG is safe and Sieg is slow so the delays don't work. Also as I said before, hitting with 1K stops your offense right there because it's negative on hit. I will admit that I like to use 1K to bait 2A so I can make use of 66A aGI. Also, iagA is -13 on JG a few characters can punish it on JG, not many but a few. 22A is slow enough that it doesn't mix up well with the other options you stated in my opinion. GGs earlier though.

I understand your aggravation about Sieg since I play Raph. But jg is already a 4 frame window right? Can't get much smaller than that. I guess if you want Sieg to win you'll have to try to work in delays or something to bait jg but you are right that that's already a risky idea in itself and makes a lot more work for Sieg. I would much rather never see jg again and a return to regular GI system instead of what we have.

JG has a 7 frame window if you do a 1F tap of G.

 

[Real_Bojack]

7 frames you say? I can see how it would cause problems for Sieggy. Maybe they'll patch away jG but I doubt it.

 

[Solo]

7 frames you say? I can see how it would cause problems for Sieggy. Maybe they'll patch away jG but I doubt it.

Yea it's insane. All of Sieg's reasonable moves to do from neutral range from i15-i24. If you're at range it's not too bad but once they get close to you it just becomes a game of are you going to get JG'd or CH'd.

 

[Real_Bojack]

Yea it's insane. All of Sieg's reasonable moves to do from neutral range from i15-i24. If you're at range it's not too bad but once they get close to you it just becomes a game of are you going to get JG'd or CH'd.

I will have to remember this when I fight Sieg's from now on. I do agree that jg is one of those things that will benefit/hurt certain characters MUCH more than others which given its nature is kind of horseshit. Still hold that there is no reason to ban/patch out JUG though.

 

[Solo]

I will have to remember this when I fight Sieg's from now on. I do agree that jg is one of those things that will benefit/hurt certain characters MUCH more than others which given its nature is kind of horseshit. Still hold that there is no reason to ban/patch out JUG though.

Raph actually has a pretty good MU against Sieg, it's his best MU. You can out space and out poke me. Sieg only has control around iagA tip range in that match up. You can make Sieg whiff very easily too from my experiences.

 

[Wandrian]

Should we remind Solo there is more than one character in the game? No? Okay then.

 

[Solo]

Snip.

I've tried every character in this game. They're all boring to me. I wouldn't be complaining about Sieg if I found another character I can have fun with. But since you have no idea about balance why don't you try playing Sieg, NM, or Asta against someone who JGs. Good luck. Also if they play Pyrrha, Natsu, or Alpha you're screwed. You'll be eating 40 damage punishes for everything.

Edit: More proof JG is broken.

 

[Reave]

How could Maxi, Yoshi, Xiba or Dampierre be remotely boring?

 

[Real_Bojack]

Raph actually has a pretty good MU against Sieg, it's his best MU. You can out space and out poke me. Sieg only has control around iagA tip range in that match up. You can make Sieg whiff very easily too from my experiences.

Sieg 3B defeats 75% of Raph's moveset and will stuff SE on reaction. Just keep that in mind. Sieg is a decent match up for Raph but it's not a free win for Raph.

How could Maxi, Yoshi, Xiba or Dampierre be remotely boring?

The same reason you prolly don't like to play Raph or Hilde?

 

[Signia]

I would agree with that but JG is safe and Sieg is slow so the delays don't work. Also as I said before, hitting with 1K stops your offense right there because it's negative on hit. I will admit that I like to use 1K to bait 2A so I can make use of 66A aGI. Also, iagA is -13 on JG a few characters can punish it on JG, not many but a few. 22A is slow enough that it doesn't mix up well with the other options you stated in my opinion. GGs earlier though.

JG has a 7 frame window if you do a 1F tap of G.

Siegfried is actually really good against JG. You have iagA, 3K, 6K which are very safe on JG. Most characters don't have tools like that which are that safe on JG. I'm one of the most JG-heavy players in the U.S. and I was frustrated fighting KDZ's Siegfried at EVO because of how safe he can be. What are you mad about, 3B being launch punishable on JG? Every launcher is like that. His tracking-mids and GBs are heavily punishable on JG? That's how it is for everyone.

b6 and 66K being -17 is a bit much, but those moves are usually -10. 7 frames gained for JGing is par for the course.

I don't know if you've been following the tournament scene, but I'm pretty sure the crying-Siegfried-mains period is over. Most people agree that Siegfried is a solid character now. So don't go saying that SC5's system hurts him. The system favors him like it favors Nightmare.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Siegfried is actually really good against JG. You have iagA, 3K, 6K which are very safe on JG. Most characters don't have tools like that which are that safe on JG. I'm one of the most JG-heavy players in the U.S. and I was frustrated fighting KDZ's Siegfried at EVO because of how safe he can be. What are you mad about, 3B being launch punishable on JG? Every launcher is like that. His tracking-mids and GBs are heavily punishable on JG? That's how it is for everyone.

b6 and 66K being -17 is a bit much, but those moves are usually -10. 7 frames gained for JGing is par for the course.

I don't know if you've been following the tournament scene, but I'm pretty sure the crying-Siegfried-mains period is over. Most people agree that Siegfried is a solid character now. So don't go saying that SC5's system hurts him. The system favors him like it favors Nightmare.

See i knew Jg wasn't all free to siegfried...because im somewhat good at just guarding....

 

[Reave]

The same reason you prolly don't like to play Raph or Hilde?

I enjoy every character in this game. Maybe not to play as but fighting them is equally fun. Yes even Viola and Mitsurugi though I get weary of him fast.

I also thought about maining Raph but since I don't like mirrors I never practiced with him.

 

[Reptile]

Sieg 3B defeats 75% of Raph's moves

Humm... No? Step 4B kills all his options but guard. Also Raph is the shit. And so is Hilde ok?

 

[Real_Bojack]

Humm... No? Step 4B kills all his options but guard. Also Raph is the shit. And so is Hilde ok?

Allright so 75% might have been an exaggeration but 3B still shuts down a heap of Raph's game. Is the fight unwinnable for Raph? Not at all but with 3B Sieg can give Raph lots of headaches. If Sieg is being smart about the 3B placement it will defeat 4B as well. Luckly Sieg doesn't have any good spammable 22~tech crouches (that I know of) those really fuck up Raph's day.

And yes, Raph is the shit. But let's not derail the thread with Raph/Sieg stuff. Back to JUGs!

 

[Reptile]

Dude step that shit. At mid range you've got 22B. At close range you've got 33K$.

I can find a solution to all your problems. Ask away.

 

[Heaton]

Siegfried

The thing is, being able to JG tech catches affects his game quite a bit, since there are a few scenarios where 66B or 66A+B are guaranteed at least on block - after SCH k(BE) ~ iagA, for example - and that plays a huge part of his guard break game. Not to mention, I'm fairly certain that this exploit makes SRSH K have NO guaranteed follow-ups. So when applied to these moves, the system is definitely not favoring Siegfried.

Otherwise, he's golden.

Humm... No? Step 4B kills all his options but guard. Also Raph is the shit. And so is Hilde ok?

I told you I'd correct this. The following things beat Raphael Step ~ 4(B) post Siegfried 3(B) on block:

1. SCH 6 ~ SCH B for at least 70 damage
2. SCH 6 ~ SCH K for 12 damage
3. SCH 6 ~ SCH k(BE) for at least 57 damage
4. SCH B+K ~ SBH B for at least 91 damage

Of note, there's a bit of inconsistency with SCH B, since the moves come out at fairly similar times, and who wins depends on the length of the step for both of them.
Though Raphael can just kill all of it with his CE, if he has the meter for it.

 

[TheNoirEffect]

(I just want to say something not to knock you fellas off topic)

The unfamiliarity of this system is what makes this game fun, I'm pretty sure once we get a grasp on JGing and shit we wont be able to let it go, just like how GI was for us. I will look forward to the day when I fully understand when and where to use JG's because I think SCV was kind of built around this system, other than meter & movement.

 

[Reave]

I have a grasp on it already and it shuts down something's but is easy to combat IMO. Nothing like fucking somebody's head up with a Re-JG.

 

[kAb]

what do you mean re JG? if i JUG pyrrahs 22A-> 22B BE she is getting stepped and then bombed, there is no re JG.