JGing Tech Catches

kAb

[12] Conqueror
this is not the same thing. you could also do a 9B and accomplish the same thing in those natsu UB situations. this is JGing during and ukemi where there is normally no other option to escape.
 

Reave

[13] Hero
But in those situation you would still have to guess between a low JG or a mid JG right?

So Mitsurugi could do CH B6, 3B on the low JG attempt?
 

Silent Joel

[12] Conqueror
Don't really care about other characters, but for Cervy you have to guess which way they're gonna tech and use a different move to catch them which isn't really fair if you can just keep teching to one side and JG the hit if it comes. Takes away quite a good mind game imo, although it does seem other characters only need the one move to catch all sides.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
So Mitsurugi could do CH B6, 3B on the low JG attempt?
IIRC B6 has a pretty long range, 3B is not always going to work.

If you can tech to the side and JG 1A, that would take care of 1A and 66A+B options. I tried it myself though, I still cannot do it.

I was discussing some stuff earlier (think it was this week), and in that situation you literally only have 1 frame to JG. I think JG out of tech is one of these situations, a Just Frame that is dictated by the opponent, not yourself.
I don't like it at all.


Back in SCIV when I knew nothing I advocated 6:6B x3 for Amy, because of the Just Ukemi risk (6:6B, 6:6BA could be teched out of, and possibly punished since you were whiffing, maybe it was just advantage, can't remember). But, I never saw Just Ukemi much in videos at the time. As Oof said, it wasn't even talked about much here...
 

Reave

[13] Hero
Well at tip range I would run up into a 2KB BE/66B mix up. I just think there are ways to get around this but patching it out would be fine too. I just don't want a last patch focusing strictly on this.
 

noodalls

[10] Knight
It's not particularly difficult, people just aren't used to it (remember when nobody could OS JG?). Since all tech traps hit during the same 6 frame window in a ukemi and the JG window covers this entire period, it's just a matter of tapping G the instant your ukemi starts, which can be achieved quite easily with muscle memory.
http://8wayrun.com/threads/tech-catch-window-is-6-frames.10758/

Tech-catch window is right at the end of the ukemi period.

In Japan for 3 weeks, can't test anything about this.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
But in those situation you would still have to guess between a low JG or a mid JG right?

So Mitsurugi could do CH B6, 3B on the low JG attempt?
Unless you have both a low and a mid option for the tech catch, you don't really force a mixup. During the period of time where you're vulnerable to tech catches, you're invulnerable to everything else. That invulnerable period is when you're inputting the JG, so it's not like you're committing to a high-guard/low-guard guess. If you do the JG and see that they didn't do the tech catch, you can just react to what they're going to do next.

Best counter to this would be to run up and force a mid/throw mixup you know they'll JUG.
 

kAb

[12] Conqueror
spent some more time on this and am able to get it fairly consistent in P-mode. only a matter of time til i adapt it for match play. seriously until this is banned people need to learn it and use it like 2G in SC2.

nullifies mitsu 1A traps
NM CH 6K into 1A
NM CH WSB, NSS A+B, 66B
pyrrah 22A, 66B BE.

can someone work on seeing if mitsu CE is JUGable off of any of his normal stuff like 236B BE, 22B CH 66A. i tried but couldnt get it.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
Why would/should this be banned? Honestly, except for pissing and moaning because dopey tech trap set ups are no longer as effective how does having JUG negatively affect the game? If some one can pull off a JUG and trash you for your tech trap then so be it, should have done something else. This will force Calibur play to become better and will be a negative for the game if removed.
 

Wandrian

I don't know.
Yeah, Odashima clearly wanted there to be more thought behind every action in higher level play...So there is :)
 

Solo

[14] Master
Generic 2A beats 1K. If you do 1K your offense stops there. Also about the throws, it doesn't help when your character does less than the standard throw damage. You guys still didn't answer my question, quit dancing around it.
 

Wandrian

I don't know.
Throws and mixups already. If you try to JG when the other guy tries to throw you, the only thing you can do in response is try to break the throw since you don't have enough frames to do anything else other than another JG attempt or throw break after making a bad read. Mixups still beat JG if the person trying to do JG guesses wrong.

Also, I think Dampierre put it best. You failed!
 

Solo

[14] Master
Throws and mixups already. If you try to JG when the other guy tries to throw you, the only thing you can do in response is try to break the throw since you don't have enough frames to do anything else other than another JG attempt or throw break after making a bad read. Mixups still beat JG if the person trying to do JG guesses wrong.

Also, I think Dampierre put it best. You failed!
You do realize Sieg's mix ups are complete shit. Also, half the time you're playing with Sieg you aren't in his throw range. I'm done talking about this, I'm dropping this game anyways.
 

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
Can you explain why JG isn't completely retarded though?
Prolly not retarded for the same reasons some peeps really like parry in 3rd Strike or Just Defense in MotW???

Sometimes though I feel JG is Namco's way of making a game full of bad mechanics and saying "well you can JG through everything in theory" so I dunno, maybe you're on to something. Viscant a while back made some very compelling arguments as to why 3rd Strike Parry makes the game worse overall so perhaps those could apply to JG on a long enough time line. One where many ideas and concepts fall apart due to JG...... sort of like the way 8wrun/backdash counters and guardbreak damaged spacing and defense as viable strategies.

But if JG helps prevent/remove "trip~move if I think they'll stay down" or "trip~move if I think they'll get up" moron strats that work better in V than in any other Calibur that comes to mind........ (maybe 3 was worse I can't remember 3 very well) then I'm all for it. Or course I do HATE the way it seems GI was largely removed so they could make jG take over.
 

Solo

[14] Master
I just hate how the mechanics on this game are completely against Siegfried. The mechanics seem like they were literally made just to make him suck. I don't see the point of the back dash nerf when I couldn't even back dash in the first place. JG completely destroys him, despite what others say "Do mix ups, I'll give you advice about your character even though I don't know anything about him." Sieg has no good mix ups, they're complete trash or the risk/reward is completely against you. Well this isn't a Sieg discussion so I'm going to leave it at that.

On topic: JG removing the moron strats would be nice, it would also be nice if it had a smaller window so people can't JG all of Sieg's options from neutral with the same timing. >.<
 
J

JustinAkatsuki

Guest
Solo I have to somewhat disagree with u about the JG on siegfried...and ggs earlier had to hop off. But siegfried is not all easy to JG..sure u can Jg 3B but when siegfried mixes it up with 1k, 22A and throws the process is alot harder to JG him. And don't forget JG is useless against his IAG:A because it can't be AA or BB punished on JG not totally sure tho. But i say out of all these 3 chars nightmare,astaroth and siegfried. Siegfried is the hardest to just guard while astaroth imo is the easiest of the three.