Just Attacks

manoftheleaf said:
Hey what's up guys. I would like to first introduce myself. I am relatively new to 8 way run. I've been strong casual SC player and on a recent forum poster, mostly on SRK. I game usually with the Olympia Fightclub in Lacey, WA USA.

Anyways, I have been testing α Pat's Just Frames moves. Specifically looking for frame information and here is what I have found.

All testing is not 100% accurate. I am using a Hori Command Stick PS (Red) and a HDE PS2 to XBOX 360 Adapter which has input lag but my success rate for programmed Just Frame attacks is at least 75%.

[1A;A;A]- The JF input window is 2 frames. 1st JF input from 21~22 frames the 2nd JF input is on 44~45 frames. (20 frames of delay for both JF's).

*Tips: The reason why I kept missing the last hit was because the animation for the 3rd hit looks faster than the 2nd so your body tends to rush the 3rd input when its really the exact same timing.

[FC 3B;B]- The JF input window is 3 to 4 frames. BE JF input window is 5 frames. 1st JF input is on 13~16 frames.

[B.Turn B+K;B]- The JF input window is 3 to 4 frames.

[1B;B]- The JF input window is 2 frames. JF input is on 16~17 frames. You have 37~60 frames after [1B;B] to extend this combo with another [1B;B] and into FC 3B;B;BE 8A+B B FC 3A;B Nothing is guranteed after the 60 frames.

*Tips: You can tell the seond [1 B;B] fully combos because the opponent will be in the Face Up Feet Towards and not the Face Down Feet Away poisiton.

[FC 3A:B]- The JF input window is 1 frame. There can be no additional inputs with the B input not even a neutral input. Best to use the finger slide method. You have 52 frames after the first [FC 3A:B] to input another [FC 3A:B]. It becomes an Ukemi Trap after 60 frames.

*Interesting Info: With the computer on Just Guard after knockdown the AI could not JG or GI for 30 frames after the Ukemi; tested after frame 60. However, they could still block it.

THIS IS UP FOR DEBATE/TESTING!

BOUNUS ROUND: Comboing two [FC 3A;B] after [214 B+G] throw. You have to wait 120~127 frames til you can input [FC 3A:B] and then 52~60 frames for the second [FC 3A;B]. As soon as you see α Pat pull the sword out of the opponents face you can buffer in the [FC 3A:B].

That should cover all his JF moves and shed a mathematical light on t α Pat. As you can see [FC 3B;B] and [B.Turn B+K;B] have really the longest input windows. [FC 3A:B] has the shortest input window but with the finger slide method makes this move much more viable. [1A;A;A] and [1B;B] are 2 frame input windows but the timing for the JF is very awkward [1B;B] being the faster and easier from my experiences.

EDIT:
[A;G;B]- This JF input window is 4 frames. You have up to 9 frames to Guard cancel A in order to get a normal [A;G;B]. To get the JF version you will need to complete all inputs in 4 frames. So you can Guard cancel A in 2 frames G in 1 and B on the last frame, it can also be done in 1, 2, 1 and so on. There have been some instances where doing it in 5 frames fulfills the requirements but it wasn't successful 100% of the time.

*Tips: I use my thumb/index finger to do a downward swipe across A;G and then I use my middle finger to tap B.
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Yo, can I use this quote? It's very informative.
I added it to the general strategy thread it still has your name on it, but if you want me to take it down just tell me.
 
manoftheleaf said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "use this quote". As long as you ain't making money off of my quote then yes, you may use it. Next time you should shorten long reply quotes if and when you use them, especially if you just want to ask a question. It's much easier for mods and it takes up less space.
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Check the general strategy thread.
 
Thanks leaf. Really put that 2143 a:B into perspective. Now if only I could stop getting 2143 A+B
 
Funny thing is, most times I'm getting separate inputs for A and B and not A+B like I thought I would. But I still can't do JF Twisters on command. XD

Can you do the aB slide too fast or something? Because I've had times in practice when it does the JF version and then I do it just as fast or faster and nothing.
 
Actually beginning to get it a bit more consistently now without it feeling like total dumb luck(As you said earlier 'Oh that was just a JF twister..."). Just trying to stay extremely cognizant if the 2143 input(Making sure to hold 3) and sliding fast as hell. I'm guessing I wasn't sliding fast enough because I was indeed getting a lot of A+B's.

A little bit different finger positioning as well on my stick. I used to slide all the way from outside A all the way to B, but now I'm almost inbetween A and then go right over to B. I'm getting way more A B's instead of A+B though a bit harder to get that "fast" slide to make the JF twisters come out when I want them too.
 
I use a pad, so I'm hoping it's not just a "it's ten times harder to do on pad and it'll take you years to master it" kind of situation. XD

Do you slide from A to B and hold B down, or slide across both so that you're not pressing anything at all?
 
Funny enough I was getting ready to add that this might almost might make take a 2nd look at pad. ALMOST. Since the button sensitivity isn't much of an issue since they are spaced fairly apart on a pad. Compared to if you just LIGHTLY depress a button on stick you can get a command which is probably why I got a ton of A+B's. You would think it would work in your favor most of the time, but in this scenario the buttons being so responsive is slightly problematic(Until I can figure out a consistent solution). I'll have to try it on pad in the morning to see if I have any better luck, but outside looking in I'd imagine this to be easier on pad.

I slide all the way across A and B so that I'm not pressing anything at all.
 
Maybe I should make a video showing my hands. I am willing to do it on both pad and stick problem is that everything depends on the person. Would a video really help anyone? As far as the peripheral of choice? Pad = Arcade stick in SCV. I prefer an arcade stick just because I find it more enjoyable.
 
manoftheleaf said:
Would a video really help anyone? As far as the peripheral of choice? Pad = Arcade stick in SCV. I prefer an arcade stick just because I find it more enjoyable.
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I believe that this would be very useful Leaf. Would be nice to hear the sound of the inputs as well, and I also prefer stick. Either way, thanks a bunch for the info!
 
manoftheleaf said:
Maybe I should make a video showing my hands. I am willing to do it on both pad and stick problem is that everything depends on the person. Would a video really help anyone? As far as the peripheral of choice? Pad = Arcade stick in SCV. I prefer an arcade stick just because I find it more enjoyable.
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Cheeseoftheday made videos in the early SC4 Days, inputs are still the same...sure you can make a vid if you want, but its basically the same as this:

 
manoftheleaf said:
Maybe I should make a video showing my hands. I am willing to do it on both pad and stick problem is that everything depends on the person. Would a video really help anyone? As far as the peripheral of choice? Pad = Arcade stick in SCV. I prefer an arcade stick just because I find it more enjoyable.
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If you do it if you can, can you make sure to show each one in slow-mo and a first person camera angle for stick? The camera work on the pad stuff was perfect in Cheese's vid, but I had a hard time following what he did on the stick because it was from that top down perspective instead of first person perspective.
 
docvizzo said:
Cheeseoftheday made videos in the early SC4 Days, inputs are still the same...sure you can make a vid if you want, but its basically the same as this:
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Thanks doc! Didn't know that he is so similar to Setsuka in terms of input.
 
ALXRoyale said:
What is the point of this move? Low range, slow, and highly punishable. I have been using 2361B instead; same combo ender, same damage for less risk and less room for error.
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The none JF version is punishable which is -23. The Just frame version is only -13. Mostly AA's can punish it or, anyone with a quick poke like Patroklos 236:B

ag:Bx2 ~ 2aA+B+K ~ just frame sakura twister is a very powerful combo. Thought I was dreaming when I seen 155dmg
 
That is the the last of his JF's I have to master. The input is awkward so I haven't found a suitable way to slide.
 
Question: For JF Twisters, is it really mandatory to release A before the B input? I've read that in a few places, but my own experiments in training have shown that the game will read 214 , 3+A, 3+A+B and still execute the JF. Can anyone else back this observation?
 
Ok so I've picked up Patsuka as a sub today, kind of surprised at how not-difficult his inputs are. The only question I have really is about endurance basically, I can get Twisters near 100% of the time at first, but my fingers get tired and it becomes quite difficult. Am I probably doing something to overexert here or is this a common thing among Patsuka players? I also had to remap to do the ag:B JF properly, I'm not really sure whether that will get me strange looks or not haha. Anyone do that with normal inputs? I find it super easy with 3 buttons in a row but only managed to hit it like once without.
 
Just keep doing it till it stops hurting

As Ring will testify, I maimed myself over a 4 day tournament in Germany, lol.
 
I guess I'll just get used to it haha. New motion I guess, I did the same when learning guitar, played 'til my fingers literally bled and kept playing... for 2 weeks. Temporary hurdle even if a painful one then I suppose.
 
I've recorded the timings down for some of the JF moves but I need to find a site to upload it to where people can listen to the timing online in a playlist all on one page and have the option to download. Anyone know of a good place?

And I realise I have the same avatar as AlphaDragoon lol. This is going to be confusing!
 
MyNameIsE: Try soundcloud? Myself and other musicians use that site to share audio, and it should work for your purposes.
 
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