Leixia Matchup Chart Discussion Thread

[ShinjiUrahara]

Well um... if this matchup was only about cervy attacking and leixia blocking... you'd be 100% right. But it's not...

- He has some of the best throws in the game. One BE throw or his standard B throw into iGDR/CE can even out most of the damage she'll get from AA/6KK punishes or pokes.
- His 1AB and 3A kill any kind of counter offense and because one's mid and one's low, he can pretty much do this after her SAFE stuff to make them feel unsafe.
- No Cervy would do BBB on block anyway... it's hit confirmable.
- He controls more space than she does except mid range. Even then, when he has meter 4B(BE) fixes that problem.
- aB (pirate's cross) is unpunishable at max range for her. It's also a good interrupt for her frame game.

The pros in the match are her block punishment as you said and her ability to control mid range when she gets there. But that's about it really. At best it'd probably be 4/6 for Lex, but not 5/5 or anywhere near her favor, imo.

When you find a pro cervy just throw them at me and we will settle things there lol

Lol what? Are you really being serious?

A positive/negative advantage cannot only be judged by punishment, and even so, you have to mention how Cervantes can punish her as well. For example, he can punish her 3B with aB for 40dmg which is as much as she gets, if she hits. Furthermore, some of his stuff is pseudo-safe cause Leixia's 6KK won't punish it at midrange.
Seriously, if Leixia has a 7:3 against Cervantes because she can punish so much so "hard", then he has 9:1 against the Pyrrhas or Alpha.

You played great last weekend, I'm not gonna let you get away with that. =P
It is not even close to being even in my opinion, let alone advantageous for her.

That's not it. What you have to look is gameplay Cervy is a very well-rounded character, yes but without effective usage of his main moves stated about he isn't that effective vs Leixia. Playing smart has to be taken into account as well... If the Cervy is aB happy even at mid Leixia can CE punish because its so negative, aB can also be stepped. It's not simply a matter punish but more so of the moves that she can take away from him. He can't really Spam anything without worrying about getting punished... LOL @ 3B it's not hard to play a whole match without even using that move and I only really spam that on grounded opponents.

No matter who the character is if one character can punish almost every good move in another characters arsenal thats an auto bad matchup for char thats getting punished because they cannot abuse their characters best moves. Again, taking moves away from your opponent puts them at a high disadvantage.

This is why Natsu is so tough for Leixia because she can punish almost all of Leixia best moves, so Leixia is forced to play a different game. Same thing here with Cervy, only thing is I can't see what kind of safe game he can play against her.

 

[Therenovator]

@zeroeffect you forget the first hit of AB is a high 3b after any frame -2 and over will beat AB easily.
AB should be treated like leixia own AA.
AB is not a problem for leixia she can punish it with 3b at any range.
as for mitsu he is very linear his step killers are not so good as they are mostly high 3b+k if used well will frustrate.
any attempt to space you out. you say 3b+k can be step but this move tracks very well so it wont happen very often.
yes 44a is good but its way too slow so it will get blocked most of the time.
if you use moves that have good push back then instantly 3B+K you will be surprised how effective it is.
ive had good success with this strategy stepping just outside of mid range then 3b+k.
here why it works if a smart player see you stepping he wll not use verticals because they will whiff,he will be more likely to use fast step killers but most are all high.
2) if you use 44a in this scenario it will be too slow if your oponent decides to use a low step killer or mid assuming they have one.
notice how low or mid step killers for most of the cast are very slow.
3)the reason 3B+K is better as a mid range spacing tool i sit tracks so well is pretty fast has very good range and tc leaving her in fc.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

@zeroeffect you forget the first hit of AB is a high 3b after any frame -2 and over will beat AB easily.
AB should be treated like leixia own AA.
AB is not a problem for leixia she can punish it with 3b at any range.

I guarantee you she cannot punish aB at max range. Second, yes aB first hit is high. but he can use 1AB and 3A like I said earlier to kill counter offense (like 3B at -2) His 3A will give a combo for 40+ dmg (more than Lex 3B gets on hit, btw) and 1AB will CH for 60+ with iGDR followup.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

Cervantes v Leixia is 7:3 in Leixia's favour...

I'm just gonna go right ahead and say that the level in the US is way below Europe right now.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Cervantes v Leixia is 7:3 in Leixia's favour...

I'm just gonna go right ahead and say that the level in the US is way below Europe right now.

Lol. Yeah.. we're garbage.

 

[ShinjiUrahara]

So we need a Europe player to come in and second my notion in order things to stick? That's just gay... Age of Truth do you has psn sir?

 

[LP]

I'm just gonna go right ahead and say that the level in the US is way below Europe right now.

And you're baing that off of what? I'm hoping you and the rest of Europe plan on coming over here and dominating Evo...but I somehow very much doubt that'd be the case.

 

[Kalas]

I think when it comes to Cervy vs Leixia, the players that have most credibility imo are Hyrul and docvizzo since (I think) they've been playing each other so much.

@ Shinji
You're still only talking about punishment, that's not everything. If I follow you're logic, characters like Alpha or Omega (and even Cervantes with aB) must have only 8:2 matchups because they can punish everything that is punishable at all. So every character must change the movechoice against those characters in order not to get punished to death. It's not something specific for Cervantes to Leixia at all.
And I wasn't talking about Cervantes aB as a spacing, but punishment tool, so I don't really get that argument.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I think when it comes to Cervy vs Leixia, the players that have most credibility imo are Hyrul and docvizzo since (I think) they've been playing each other so much.

I would add that the matchups I play against the most (on a weekly basis at least) are Ivy, Cervantes, Omega, Ezio, Alpha, Mitsu and Voldo. NM and Asta I play more now and had to really test a lot of stuff to get the hang of.

But I also understand the fact that doc and hyrul are bigger names, it is what it is... Anyway, here's hoping this doesn't get outta hand.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Cervantes v Leixia is 7:3 in Leixia's favour...

I'm just gonna go right ahead and say that the level in the US is way below Europe right now.

You know just because one person said that matchup is in leixia's favor doesn't mean that the U.S. level is below europe..but haha I really don't care who's level is better or not :D Anyway....no that matchup is not 7:3 at all...and leixia isn't even my main character even I know she doesn't have the upper hand against cervantes.(but hey everyone is gonna have different opinions right?) Anyway how do u guys feel about maxi? She does ok against him I recently said maxi has a slight advantage because he dishes out more damage than her but not much, and that's only a slight slight advantage for him.

 

[Kalas]

I would add that the matchups I play against the most (on a weekly basis at least) are Ivy, Cervantes, Omega, Ezio, Alpha, Mitsu and Voldo. NM and Asta I play more now and had to really test a lot of stuff to get the hang of.

But I also understand the fact that doc and hyrul are bigger names, it is what it is... Anyway, here's hoping this doesn't get outta hand.

I'm sorry, I didn't know who you play against regularly, of course I didn't mean to include you (or anyone else).

 

[SpaghettiViking]

I'm by no means an expert on Cervantes/Leixia, but if we're on the topic of punishment "taking away" a character's best moves, let's keep in mind that a 6KK from Leixia is not always enough of a threat to make a good player using an unsafe move (intelligently, of course) completely eliminate that move from their repertoire. Many characters have moves that are unsafe to 6KK if blocked, yet potentially yield 75+ damage on a hit/counter hit.

When 34 damage is the scariest thing Leixia can do without a CE, the risk/reward for that move says you can get away with being punished once, but still come out on top if you get it the second time. If you get punished TWICE but land it the third time, you'll still come close to breaking even in some cases.

Take Poe's 236B:4 for a counter example. Against her, a -14 move is like suicide if that Poe player is on top of their shit. You're not getting punished for 34 damage, you're eating a full 65 damage (55 without the just). Make the mistake of using that move twice and you'll get punished for over half your life bar. Nobody in their right mind is gonna take that kind of risk willingly.


TL;DR:
Leixia's got good options to make a punish happen, but the damage isn't high enough to completely scare people away from using the moves she can potentially punish.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

And you're baing that off of what? I'm hoping you and the rest of Europe plan on coming over here and dominating Evo...but I somehow very much doubt that'd be the case.

I'm basing it on what I've seen in the US Majors. I would love to come to EVO but I just can't afford it. I doubt many (if any) of you guys will be coming to Europe any time soon for EBO or any other European majors.

But I also understand the fact that doc and hyrul are bigger names, it is what it is... Anyway, here's hoping this doesn't get outta hand.

Reputation and names don't matter. I'm just trying to make points backed up by reason. But seeing as no-one is listening to any points that you or me or Kalas make, I tried to back it up by saying that I've played a really good Cervantes lot and lots (Doc). I am tired of making the points over and over, and then reading things like "the first hit of aB is High so you can TC under it". I could write pages of stuff about why Cervantes destroys Leixia, but it would be stuff so basic that it would be abundantly clear to anyone who had actually played a top Cervantes.

 

[LP]

I'm basing it on what I've seen in the US Majors. I would love to come to EVO but I just can't afford it. I doubt many (if any) of you guys will be coming to Europe any time soon for EBO or any other European majors.

And what have you seen of Europe that makes them so much superior? I could make some asshat statements to argue that Europe is lagging behind but that would be a failing on my part to realize that, while they're not all at the same level, some European players are very strong (not the majority of them , as you seem to believe).

I think it'd be easy to go back and criticize every single vid from every single region (of which, the United States has WAY more footage in comparison to pretty much every region)...but I think that'd as things are completely different in practice than they are in theory. A lot of the time these theory threads come down to x beats y. And, seriously, if you know that x beats y and you continue to do it...then...we all know what they say about insanity.

Also, it could very well be that we suck and all that jazz...but, it could be that we don't. All I know is that anyone who's played a good number of the good players from the States probably have a different perspective.

 

[docvizzo]

I'm basing it on what I've seen in the US Majors. I would love to come to EVO but I just can't afford it. I doubt many (if any) of you guys will be coming to Europe any time soon for EBO or any other European majors.

Regarding the general Fighting Game Situation and comparing it to the US actually i highly doubt any player will ever visit EU again. Cant compete with 16k Majors, no local scenes, nothing. Pretty sad.

If i find some motivation for SC5 again i'll probably go to a MLG later this year if they keep it in their Line up.

On Topic: Cervantes is probably 6:4 or 7:3 in the means of "clear advantage". Im not gonna go into details, damage wise its pretty clear, 1AB destroys her midrange movement + evade game,aB her frametraps+ highly spammable with proper spacing. 1AB catches her WS B BE for ch etc. Also he has a good punishing game vs her, Auto GIs with huge windows against her strings etc.

Its pretty obvious for me but i do not have the motivation to go into details rights now. Hyrul knows the matchup well.

 

[Synraii]

And what have you seen of Europe that makes them so much superior?

Euro's winning all yo' majors

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I'm basing it on what I've seen in the US Majors. I would love to come to EVO but I just can't afford it. I doubt many (if any) of you guys will be coming to Europe any time soon for EBO or any other European majors.
Reputation and names don't matter. I'm just trying to make points backed up by reason. But seeing as no-one is listening to any points that you or me or Kalas make, I tried to back it up by saying that I've played a really good Cervantes lot and lots (Doc). I am tired of making the points over and over, and then reading things like "the first hit of aB is High so you can TC under it". I could write pages of stuff about why Cervantes destroys Leixia, but it would be stuff so basic that it would be abundantly clear to anyone who had actually played a top Cervantes.

Yeah I hear ya. To be honest man, I'm probably one of the few US players who really doesn't care all that much about Euro/America "rivalry". All I need is to be good enough to beat whoever my opponent is, overseas or not, lol. Perhaps my earlier post came across like I was offended, so my bad on that.

Matchup charts aren't easy to discuss because everyone wants their opinions to matter. But unfortunately, not many are willing to accept the possibility of them being wrong about something.

 

[LP]

Euro's winning all yo' majors

You mean Keev winning everything...much like he is/was doing in France. That'd be like saying the US is the best in SSF4 because Justin Wong wins everything and just beat everyone who came out to CEO.

On topic, I'm starting to think aa BE is really good and should be used to limit your opponent's movelist....especially the slower characters.

Also, I do not think that matchups should be based on what give X character problems...if that same thing gives every character problems for the most part.

 

[Synraii]

JWong will have a heart attack in the next 3 years though, lol.
Besides, JP have the best SF players =)

 

[Age_of_Truth]

snip

I don't think US players suck, nor do I think that the majority (I'm not sure what you mean by this) of European players are very strong. I talked to ShinjiUrahara about this and I don't want to repeat the whole lot. In short, US has some great players, and even if a player isn't amazing it doesn't matter so much that you shouldn't respect them. Just that I think the top European players have overall better match-up knowledge at the moment from what I've seen. But I've played very few Americans so I'm not in a great place to judge. I guess Keev and Kayane would be the ones to ask.

And yeah my comment was just blowing off steam cos I get frustrated with the Leixia SA at times.

Also I agree that AA BE is one of the best moves in the game.