Let's talk about B:4

sephalump said:
Nice stance dancing game. I'd suggest you lay off the WS A stuff. Its an iffy move, and really unsafe. There's a couple holes in your play but whatever, everyone has them. Particular though is using WS [B ] rather than 3[b ] to enter chief hold stance. 3[B ] into stance can be interupted almost every time offline. I'd also suggest more a+kA alone since it gives great advantage and kills step. More pokes. I suggest 2A, 1K, b6(screw you slayer, screw you), 4K, 3K. Um you two were playing way more aggressive than I'm used to seeing though, so I'm a bit usure of what else I can say. On the other hand, Welcome to 8wayrun hope you enjoy your stay here :).
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thanks for the imput homie, yes i have been told i am a more agreesive, rushdown high risk type of sieg but i think its more fun that way. And yes i wus using alot of unsafe moves but again it wus online, u can even hear me sayin "online tactics rite now" @ 15 secs in lol. I do agree with you about chief stance being interrupted easily, and also if people dont interrupt they tend to GI the K or A right after the stance......maybe if i started going into chief stance off of 11B or 22_88k~A (i think thats how u write the move out)??? im unsure of the frame data tho so ill have to check it out sometime. Either way thanks for welcoming me and ill make sure to put up more matches, hopefully some offline.
-peace
 
PsyentifiK said:
@ jink thanks mein ima try incorporating that into my game. on another note peep my latest online match peoples. i accept all types of critique.
-peace

http://www.8wayrun.com/media/sciv_jerichoxwar-sieg-_vs_psyentifik-sieg-avi.1967/
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Wall of text...lol:

I generally liked what i saw. ur a good sieg with good stance roulette skills(or at least, better than mine. i suck at stance roulette lol).

i cant really make true to heart judgements until i have time to look at more of ur vids, since that guys sieg really kinda sucked, but i'll tell u what i got from this video:

u definately need more poking. i would suggest more b6, since its safe, gives advantage, puts ur opponent into FC so it can be repeated, is fast, can be used as a punish, and u can step after it on grd because its relatively low - on grd as well.

as for ur use of a+kA2A, it was nice, as is a+kA2A a nice move. it step kills, punishes, is safe, does decent damage IMO(about 40 off a stand alone move that gives advantage seems pretty good to me.)

i'd be careful about things like WR A because yes it does indeed serve a purpose, but the move its self is very unsafe, even on hit confirm. by all means use it, just dont abuse it. same goes for WR {A} since its mixups are interruptable.

i'd also be careful with WR {B} and 3{B}. they are good moves, and by all means use them, im not telling u not to, but be aware that all mixups from both can be step-ducked even online, and if u abuse them ur opponent will get into the habit of stepping and hitting u with alot of 2A, or even alot or WR attacks.

i enjoyed seeing ur frontstep grab usage, its a nice strat, and it worked very well for the situation. i'd like to see u use a tad bit more of that to force more mind games and set up 50-50's like grab/3B. u could even go frontstep ~ sidestep ~ grab for hopes at a side grab for additional damage. if ur opponent refuses to duck and is good at breaking grabs, try doing things like frontstep ~ iagA/mixup, or frontstep 1K, or w/e.

i'd like to see u step alot more. while i do indeed understand siegs step sucks, i can set up 50/50's easier, or even land heavy hitting whiff punishes for free damage alot easier. plus if u keep moving u get hit by less garbage, and people are forced to go out of the way to kill ur step, instead of fighting u in a linear fashion.

u play agressive and somewhat unsafe, but thats ok for a siegfried against most characters. u probably do know this, but u also need to be able to switch between safe and agressive depending on ur situation. i myself play a very safe sieg, but i enter agressive and risky situations when they are advantageous to me, and have a higher chance of success. but it also depends on who ur fighting, and what kind of style suits u, there is no 1 way to play siegfried.

i'd like to see u throw out iagA once in a while, and just see how ur opponent reacts to it. it can also be used for positioning ur opponent for RO's since it has a great deal of pushback, and it step kills.

be careful about attacking or stepping after things like 3A, as 3A is unsafe, but more importantly u risk a CH.

i saw u utilise spacing a bit, and u did a fairly good job of it. however its 1 of siegs better tools, because not only does it allow u to chip away at ur opponent from relative safety, but u also get a chance to sit back and watch them, so i would probably try to incorporate just a wee bit more of this.

he really didnt give u an opportunity to do this at all, but im just throwin it out there just so u know, which u prolly do.i'd like to emphasise that u punish the little stuff, even though it is online. dont let them get away with anything thats even -13 if u can help it. and anything u cant punish, set up a 50/50 afterwards. sieg has alot of really nice 50/50 options that can shave off ur opponents health real fast if u can choose the right option.

anyways this was really good stuff. it was good to watch, and i hope u also give us more.

anyways...back to being on topic!

for b4 its alot easier to incorporate after step, on certain wake-up mixups, and if u can utilize forced block set-ups for it. rarely even just running up and b4ing can work just because they dont expect it. try it after guard impact, after some knd's, after SHK's, after wall combo's, or if u enjoy using 2K alot to force ur opponent to get up, u can try it out as a mixup if u find they try to roll away alot.

and then after b4/b:4, u can try a trap, u can step and hope for a whiff punish, u can space, u can attempt a 50/50, start a GI game, try another SC move, its got alot of possibilities. after hit, both 1B and 6B are tech traps, so uve got a high damage tech game after it as well. the only thing i would worry about is this move can be GI'd on reaction, so its something that u wanna use in a set up and not usually by itself. u can use it by itself, but dont abuse it because it does get GI'd soo easily.
 
Slayer_X64 said:
Wall of text...lol:

I generally liked what i saw. ur a good sieg with good stance roulette skills(or at least, better than mine. i suck at stance roulette lol).

i cant really make true to heart judgements until i have time to look at more of ur vids, since that guys sieg really kinda sucked, but i'll tell u what i got from this video:

u definately need more poking. i would suggest more b6, since its safe, gives advantage, puts ur opponent into FC so it can be repeated, is fast, can be used as a punish, and u can step after it on grd because its relatively low - on grd as well.

as for ur use of a+kA2A, it was nice, as is a+kA2A a nice move. it step kills, punishes, is safe, does decent damage IMO(about 40 off a stand alone move that gives advantage seems pretty good to me.)

i'd be careful about things like WR A because yes it does indeed serve a purpose, but the move its self is very unsafe, even on hit confirm. by all means use it, just dont abuse it. same goes for WR {A} since its mixups are interruptable.

i'd also be careful with WR {B} and 3{B}. they are good moves, and by all means use them, im not telling u not to, but be aware that all mixups from both can be step-ducked even online, and if u abuse them ur opponent will get into the habit of stepping and hitting u with alot of 2A, or even alot or WR attacks.

i enjoyed seeing ur frontstep grab usage, its a nice strat, and it worked very well for the situation. i'd like to see u use a tad bit more of that to force more mind games and set up 50-50's like grab/3B. u could even go frontstep ~ sidestep ~ grab for hopes at a side grab for additional damage. if ur opponent refuses to duck and is good at breaking grabs, try doing things like frontstep ~ iagA/mixup, or frontstep 1K, or w/e.

i'd like to see u step alot more. while i do indeed understand siegs step sucks, i can set up 50/50's easier, or even land heavy hitting whiff punishes for free damage alot easier. plus if u keep moving u get hit by less garbage, and people are forced to go out of the way to kill ur step, instead of fighting u in a linear fashion.

u play agressive and somewhat unsafe, but thats ok for a siegfried against most characters. u probably do know this, but u also need to be able to switch between safe and agressive depending on ur situation. i myself play a very safe sieg, but i enter agressive and risky situations when they are advantageous to me, and have a higher chance of success. but it also depends on who ur fighting, and what kind of style suits u, there is no 1 way to play siegfried.

i'd like to see u throw out iagA once in a while, and just see how ur opponent reacts to it. it can also be used for positioning ur opponent for RO's since it has a great deal of pushback, and it step kills.

be careful about attacking or stepping after things like 3A, as 3A is unsafe, but more importantly u risk a CH.

i saw u utilise spacing a bit, and u did a fairly good job of it. however its 1 of siegs better tools, because not only does it allow u to chip away at ur opponent from relative safety, but u also get a chance to sit back and watch them, so i would probably try to incorporate just a wee bit more of this.

he really didnt give u an opportunity to do this at all, but im just throwin it out there just so u know, which u prolly do.i'd like to emphasise that u punish the little stuff, even though it is online. dont let them get away with anything thats even -13 if u can help it. and anything u cant punish, set up a 50/50 afterwards. sieg has alot of really nice 50/50 options that can shave off ur opponents health real fast if u can choose the right option.

anyways this was really good stuff. it was good to watch, and i hope u also give us more.

anyways...back to being on topic!

for b4 its alot easier to incorporate after step, on certain wake-up mixups, and if u can utilize forced block set-ups for it. rarely even just running up and b4ing can work just because they dont expect it. try it after guard impact, after some knd's, after SHK's, after wall combo's, or if u enjoy using 2K alot to force ur opponent to get up, u can try it out as a mixup if u find they try to roll away alot.

and then after b4/b:4, u can try a trap, u can step and hope for a whiff punish, u can space, u can attempt a 50/50, start a GI game, try another SC move, its got alot of possibilities. after hit, both 1B and 6B are tech traps, so uve got a high damage tech game after it as well. the only thing i would worry about is this move can be GI'd on reaction, so its something that u wanna use in a set up and not usually by itself. u can use it by itself, but dont abuse it because it does get GI'd soo easily.
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thanks dude, ya that other dude wus ur typical online sieg. ill try and get one were i play someone good, i dont even care if i lose lol. I been incorporating yall's adivce and have gone from a 60% win rate to 79% since i put my vid up and i appreciate yalls help with that. i should have some more up in a few days.
PS: Who do u guys think is da best siegfried player? ima try and look up his vids see if i can learn anythin interesting.
-peace
 
hmm. thats a tough question. there are alot of decent siegs floatin around, that mainly lurk around here in the sieg SA. not very many new people even touch sieg it seems...or at least not many post in the SA here, so i think its safe to say that mostly every1 here has their fair share of experience, and is probably a very very good sieg. hell even some of the guys that roll over from nightmare are pretty good too. im probably not the best sieg around, but since im pretty sure theres not alot of vs. sieg videos floatin around i wouldnt mind whipping up a few batches of them if u'd like. maybe some others wouldnt mind doin some too. synraii & pantocrator could prolly give u an overseas point of view on sieg, jink could throw out his 2A/iagA madness perspective, and if u ask zombiebear, he could probably give u a more technical breakdown perspective. u gotta remember too, there are alot of different ways to play sieg.

if u cant wait though, i think maybe pantocrator is the only 1 with some vids ready on hand, which u could probably find somewhere in this SA. i think theres a vid of me fighting partisan on his youtube account(i look really scrubby in that vid lol), although he used it just to keep the screen active while he explained the concept of "online cheapness" or something like that. maybe try lookin it up?

other than that, like i said, im a bit pre occupied with some other siggy projects that im tryin to get goin on, but i definately wouldnt mind throwin out a few vids for ya. as for fighting good/half decent siegs, i looked at ur vid, and im gonna guess ur on XBL? i got both, so u can hit me up there, and a few other siggies also got XBL im sure...heaton for 1, synraii does but he lives in the UK i think so if u live in america, u'll need to be east cost to fight him with a good connection.

if u hang around the 8way chat alot u may run into some peeps, or maybe ask around, PM some people, figure out what system theyre on ect. if ur lucky(and u dont already) u cud find an offline sieg buddy to meet with.
 
B4 and B:4 really worth the risk; but if you are playing against some fast pace player with a really fast character then your chances are low to do this move. Most of the moves we use in a regular basis is the set that you learn that works against your regular opponents; 4B its not a part of this cause most of the Siegfried's game is about putting your opponent into mind games to find an opening... 4B is good against happy GI players, but not against opponents who are watching your moves just to guard and punish; the frame advantage in 4B is not enough to make this move a part of my game style...

B:4 could be a double hit move as many just inputs moves are: B:4>B (Mid to low as BT BB) or B:4> (Mid to mid charge or SCH).
 
Stryker said:
B4 and B:4 really worth the risk; but if you are playing against some fast pace player with a really fast character then your chances are low to do this move. Most of the moves we use in a regular basis is the set that you learn that works against your regular opponents; 4B its not a part of this cause most of the Siegfried's game is about putting your opponent into mind games to find an opening... 4B is good against happy GI players, but not against opponents who are watching your moves just to guard and punish; the frame advantage in 4B is not enough to make this move a part of my game style...

B:4 could be a double hit move as many just inputs moves are: B:4>B (Mid to low as BT BB) or B:4> (Mid to mid charge or SCH).
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i find b4 is most useful when you have your opponent cornered under pressure, or if you use it as a wakeup tool, because it forces players to roll out of the way since its extremely difficult to get up from grounded and then GI the move, and because of the heavy SG damage + frame advantage, they dont want to stand there and block it. therefore it can set up 1AA to kill rolling and fish for tech traps, so its actually a pretty good move. + b4 has huge damage tech traps after it. if you really wanna land this move often, try using it after grabs, in place of punishment, in place of whiff punishment, during box step on top of your regular mix ups, ect. again its not something you should abuse because it is slow and easy to GI if the opponent is watching what your doing, but used properly it is a very deadly tool. it even has some nice range on it ^_^

but yea i wish b4 was cancel-able like it was in previous versions too. of course, that wouldn't stop our opponent from just stepping you instead.
 
On rollers - I find that if you delay a second, and then step, it usually forces a block. So for example:

:A::+::G:, :5:, :2:, :B::4:

Fake edit: We don't have an icon for neutral?
Fake edit 2: Slayer knows.
 
Oh right okay but yeah. Basically if you just step or 8wayrun with their roll for a few seconds it'll realign and force block. The timing is a little iffy, though, because if you keep with them too long they can hit you with a WS attack from grounded. Try it a bit in practice mode and you'll get it.
 
Heaton said:
Oh right okay but yeah. Basically if you just step or 8wayrun with their roll for a few seconds it'll realign and force block. The timing is a little iffy, though, because if you keep with them too long they can hit you with a WS attack from grounded. Try it a bit in practice mode and you'll get it.
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it also has the same thing going on if ur opponent tries to get up after 88{B} SRSH B then u step forwards and b4 during ur step.
 
Btw, who's smart idea was it to make 3A -15!?!? I knew it was punishable, but I just got bent over trying to space a Cassie in some offline last night. If it's not safer in SCV I'll give NAMCO something to REALLY cry about!
Recently I've found A+KK really handy if B4 gets force blocked at tip range, technically it makes no sense at all but hey, it works!
 
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