Let's talk about Siegf's moves you don't use

Stryker

Stryker

[10] Knight
This is my only complaint about Siegfried in this version... the move-list is so short compare to Yoshimitsu, Ivy or even Nightmare, and above all there a lot of moves that no one uses; maybe you can see that move here or there in some random video but in serious competition there are moves that no one likes:

• SRSH A: This move was almost broken in SC3 but now is the biggest piece of crap in the entire game; maybe you can use it sometimes to interrupt the opponent while trying to step the other moves in this stance, but most of time even on hit you are screwed.

• 44K:In SC this move was extreme; in SC2 was good; in SC3 was excellent for RO after SBH B but now to me is just stupid. This move have to be improved in order to get better RO on hit and maybe a 66A+K command to do while running (in some SC games this move hit the ducked opponents while falling after whiff the aerial kick).

• 66KA: This move have the speed to be inside the poke game for every Siegfried player, but its other properties make this move very unreliable... good move to get a nice right RO but only on a (miracle!) CH...

• 66A+B:This move was tremendous as finisher after SRSH B and SBH B in SC3, but now I can find the proper use for this move... if this move was faster we could use it to punish the whiff, but not. If this move would look in the starting animation as a low move like 2A+B maybe we could use it to do tricks but not... if this move was safe, maybe we could use it even for the little soul gauge damage it does, but again no.

• 66_99_33 A: This move was perfect in SC3! but now his range and power to RO are no match against a lot of characters; its good to have this move but its speed are no fast enough to use it without getting nervous about his negative frames and the fact that it totally high... and his RO power is useful only on stages like the river or the sesaw.

• SBH A+B: This move was a perfect finisher after SRSH A in SC3 for a sweet 85dmg and RO againt the corners but now this move its to easy to guard... no frame advantage... if they start to jump against it you are screwed and if you use the cancel to SRSH you are more screwed. The best property this move have is that maybe it could be the hardest move to GI against Siegfried.

• 236 B: This UB move was useful in SC3 because we can use it as finishers after SBH A+B iW; but now the only use is to cancel it into throw or 3B... in the entire time I have spend playing this game I only hit with this move twice... and it was by mistake, cause I couldn't make the cancel on time.

I know about more moves that only a few people use and no one of this few people use properly, maybe I would post this moves in my next post in this thread.

-Stryker-
 
44A , 66A ,

i don't see any 11_77 B , only in combos .

7_8_9K/A/B

K

A+B

SBH A (even though it is safe on block but can be ducked it is quite horrible)

more to come .
 
I cant even find any data for 66A+B but I did a study on NMs 66A+B today and from Seig it can only be punished by 3k and b6 (TCs highs) which for the damage it can deal out isnt crazy punishment. I found it iteresting that the move didnt force you into crouch. So if we assume Seigs 66A+B is the same as NMs its not the best move in the game but its not totally useless either. That said assumptions are bad and i cbf'd finding out right now. Maybe seigs does make you FC?

OwwieYaoi 11_77 is a fairly solid move to use in wall combos but its execution is hard and you can get very similar results from 3b
 
66A+B is mainly use as a TJ move to punish 2As or lows.

NM's 66A+B leaves him grounded (lying on the ground) and FC 3B is a tech trap after 66A+B. No one really uses it though.

on topic I've never seen anyone use SBH A
 
hteng theres combo video on SBH A on youtube. Its a good move but since no one ducks for SBH it rarely hits
 
Moves that no Siegfried player uses
- Second Episode-

Hilda has stupid RO power... Amy has stupid safe moves... Cassandra has stupid punish power... and Siegfried have a bunch of stupid combos...

First at all 22_88KA_K is really a reliable move to get a easy on step punishment, but its "follower" are really stupids!

• 22_88KA2AA: easy to guard, easy to anticipate, easy to interrupt.
• 22_88KAAB: easy to guard, easy to anticipate, easy to interrupt.
• 22_88KA:2AA: easy to guard, easy to interrupt but no easy to anticipate but hard as hell to do it properly, even 22_88kA:2AA is more easy than this.
• 3KKB: easy to guard, easy to anticipate, easy to interrupt; its only advantage is the possibility to use a part or the entire sequence to change the pace in the game; 3K is a really good move but if only 3KKB could be guaranteed on CH or even insert a JF as 3K:K:B.

Its hard to find an outstanding Siegfried player, but hardest its to find someone who can use the entire command list and still be competitive.

-Stryker-
 
44A , 66A ,

i don't see any 11_77 B , only in combos .

7_8_9K/A/B

K

A+B

SBH A (even though it is safe on block but can be ducked it is quite horrible)

more to come .
Click to expand...

66A isn't too good only for Whiff punish if your opponent is using an 22_88 attack

44A I atcually find very useful although blocked often 3B can come surprising pretty quickly after this 44A.. Also at wall-range 44A is also a good close-range punisher, although not to be relyed on. 44[A] However just sucks Siegfried spins like twice, and the transition into SSH is too slow.

11_77B Is great on CH, since it leads into SCH and allows for CH 11_77B SCH k K Combo

K is a fast kick and good interrupter or to gain some space.

A+B only works after doing the wallcombo FC B+G SCH B A+B. other than that highly punishible, unless the person your fighting is on defense mode, there is also a auto-GI somewhere on this move.

SBH A is great on wall combos but alone it sucks.

• 22_88KA2AA: easy to guard, easy to anticipate, easy to interrupt.
• 22_88KAAB: easy to guard, easy to anticipate, easy to interrupt.
• 22_88KA:2AA: easy to guard, easy to interrupt but no easy to anticipate but hard as hell to do it properly, even 22_88kA:2AA is more easy than this.
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the 22_88KA2AA combo can be mixed up to a 3B if you intcipate the second low. But its a noob-trap combo, only someone new to the game would think this move is a good idea. Other than this natural combo sucks
 
OnlyWingedangel A+K ~ SSH k is a fairly solid frame trap that requires i14- to interrupt or a TC move. In fact I find its one of the best ways to fish for SSH K ch if you only throw it out occasionally. Not many players know this so its unlikely you will get punished in time the first time you use it.

22_88ka mixed up with 3b?? Offline not in this lifetime my friend.
 
Wow this thread made me mad...I dont even know where to start with my list...

1. iagA- Wtf kind of move is this? Its a high, has lousy properties, and hurts my goddamn thumb cuz im too poor to afford a good stick. PLUS, its a JUST wow...too much work for a lousy move.

2. 3B- This move does NOTHING for Sieg, worse than Voldo's 22_88 A+B? I think? That twirly dance move he does? Anyways, this move does NOT set Sieg up for anything, and CH 3B, SCH A+B is a BAD combo with horrible damage, dont use this move.

3. SRH [K]- where to start? The only good thing about this move is that stuns on hit. What to follow up with? SRH A+B...pffft try SRH A, THATS a crazy combo if u can pull it off, i can get it 90% of the time on my opponent.

Lastly, 4. a+kA:2AA- Wow this low can be seen from MILES away and can EASILY be jumped. Not to mention it has horrible properties on hit...garbage ass move.

lol okay sorry jst wanted to type, but to be for real, moves that I dont use personally are SSH K because its too risky to use, and its a high, but if u can manage to CH u got some good combos ahead. I jst dont like that im beat to the punch...errr...kick...everytime i use it.

His BBB string is a bit useless and his AAB or AA wont score u much damage against a competent player either.
 
Yeh actually I find it odd no ones mentioned Seigs bb or aa yet considering how useless they both are. Well Spotted Vortex. And your right about everything else too :P. I can jump over SRSH [k] on reaction for a free backgrab :D
 
11_77B > 3B (Stupid's move).

Edit: LOL, this topic is funny, and pisses me off, at the same time.
 
Jink said:
11_77B > 3B (Stupid's move).
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Lets discuss this for a moment Jink. 11_77 is i23 3 is i17= better interrupt and will beat out a whole lot more moves on hit. Not to mention it takes longer to input 11_77

Both are -5 on block into SCH at the same range thus your gonna get punished just as hard against someone who knows what their doing.

Normal hit 11_77 gives you +5 so SCH k will beat out anything most likely giving you potential to go into SRSH or charge SCH . Normal hit 3 gives a mini launch and combos with SCH kb for 50 damage provided they dont air control too much.

Counterhit! Both lead to combos which do 60-70 damage? granted the 11_77 combo has tech trap potential but no good player is gonna fall for SCh k SBH B.

both moves can be used on the wall for a similar effect as demonstrated in LGs agA combo video
both can be used to a strikingly similar effect aswell. Both can lead to SCh k ~ whatever follows. but 3 can start wall combo's whereas 11_77 cannot. Only time 11_77 is better than 3 on a wall IMO is after a iagA wallsplat which is difficult to execute IMo but maybe you dont find it hard.

3 can wallsplat for some devistating combo's, 11_77b cannot.
3 Can Ring you out on both NH and CH. Only way 11_77 can RO is if they fall for the SBH B tech trap or the SBH k ~ 3b tech trap which as i said before is only if your lucky enough to be up against someone who doesn't know seig well.
As you said to me in the other thread... SHARP UP! -_-

Now im the first to admit that 3b can be overused and punished and theres clips of me on tube that are prime examples of this but like any calibur player worth a mention I learn from my mistakes. 3 is not a bad move nor is 11_77 but I would suggest that 3 is much better personally. if you disagree please back your claim up
 
About the last post :
LOL
This discussion cannot exist...

About the topic :
No mention of 4B ?

Ps : Siegfried was perfect in SC3 ? Lol !
 
-BB

Completely useless, the only possible way this could be useful is BB then to SCH K Spam, But I doubt you will get that far

-AAB

Also useless the most basic of basic combos two horizontals and one low. Although allot of people I fight don't block the low for some reason. Maybe they think they can punish me before I excute the B? Idk it seems very easy to block IMO

9k- a Jump kick, don't we already have one?

2B- I really don't see a point to this move other than SBH transition,
 
LOL people probs dont block the low because they forgot it exists because no one uses it. Some of seigs moves are funny like that. Ive played against solid SCers who didnt block b2a or 3kkb because they forgot or never knew the move even existed. 2 is ok since its neutral on block but I cant really think of a practical situation to use it off the top of my head
 
2 is ok since its neutral on block but I cant really think of a practical situation to use it off the top of my head
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Some people try to punish it with some slow move and SBH K takes care of that but it happens very rarely.

speaking of SBH

SBH [K]

This does allot of damage yet its the easiest thing to sidestep and must be the easiest to punish! There is only two combos which could possibly work this move.

one wall combo which had SBH A W! 3B W! involved

the other was SSH B (CH) SBH [K] Although CH SSH B rarely hapens so Idk if it works as a combo.

Now the only people who get hit by this move are,

-people who are not paying attention
-think they can punish me while i'm charging this move (very plausible)
-think they can GI while they are guarding it
-think that while in SBH i'm going to use SBH A+B. which is strange since 3/4 moves in SBH are all regular-blocks. and SBH A+B can be blocked "OFFLINE" easily, unless you are sidestepping at the wrong time.
 
SSH has very strange hit properties depending on distance and wheather its a CH or not. One of the hits launches your opponent and can combo with SBH [k] for something like 85 DMG but happends too rarley for it to be something id be able to do on reaction.
Another hit gives the exact same properties as WRb ch SCH k where SBH k is a combo and SBH b is a tech trap. Again this is done at a certain range during a certain type of hit but i find this happens more often than the launch and is a combo with SBH k.
Most of the time when it hits however it grounds your opponent and SBH k is a tech trap. SBH k is also a tech trap after 2A+B. Coarse SBH k doesn't hit your opponent if they stay grounded so once you condition your opponent into staying on the ground SBH b or SBH [k] becomes the order of the day :).

SBH k is -21 on block so you dont want the move to be blocked however on hit 3b is a tech trap. So yeah if you do one of the above traps near a wall it can look something like this :
2A+B ~ SBH k (techtrap) ~ 3(techtrap) W! SCH k, SBH b (techtrap), iagA W!, 3 SCH A+B.
Ive done something like this maybe twice since the people I play with no when not to tech against me but im pretty sure this little chain would do more than full hp.
 
-Moves that are really good but much people doesn't know how to use it-
• A+B: This move is really good!!! is i18 so can interrupt a lot of moves and you will use the choice to use the last low hit or stay in SSH to guess with the SSH A+B or SSH K or SSH AA. Very good as round finisher.

• 4BBB:This move is awesome!! is i18 too so you can use to interrupt or else; I use it a lot as round finisher or gamble with doing one, two or the entire sequence.

• K:Very good to interrupt a lot of moves cause is i13; useful when someone is abusing of a fast character and attack you in sequence.

• 11_77 B:This move so called once "The Kidney Strike" in SC3, now is a powerful command to use as combo starter or punish a anticipated high move. Someone post about this move in this threat so read it.

• SBH [K]:I love charged moves. I wish Siegfried have more charge moves... the only complaint about this move is its lack of tracking or possible canceling; but you can punish a lot of rolling opponents(while they are in the floor) so you can use it after a KND and charge a little to be able to.

• B2A:This move is really good; you can alternate it with BB; you can release fast or charge for a sweet GB; or cancel into SCH for step and more guessing games.

As for other moves that maybe you are trying to make useful sorry but BBB and AAB are the worst crap possible; maybe when there are a 3sec lag or against a noob or newbie; a experienced player will beat the crap out of you if you use those moves. They take away a lot of good stuff from Siegfried 3 to 4 but they improve a lot of moves too, but if they would keep the good properties to some moves Siegfried would never be broke as Amy(totally safe) or Hilda(if you are hit you are screwed) Kilik (ha ha ha your mid moves are worthless against me!!) or Algol (Bubble spamer), so maybe I will be prized on the next SC game to be in top list for first time.

-Stryker-
 
Stryker.
A+B is a good move i started a thread on it a while back and its a good way to bait SSH k ch as it comes out 14 frames after A+B is blocked HOWEVER I dont think it should be used regularly because SSH a is the next quickest move in SSH at i18 and will be comming out at i21 after A+B is blocked. To ttally beat out any SSH follow ups your opponent just has to use a TC move that TCs before Frame 14 and is under i21. That you know of does any character Not have a move like this? Seig has 3b and 4k thus A+B can be beaten totally and there are much better mids that seig has.

I use K all the time! i13 its his quickest move and gives a solid +2 on his. I usually throw it or 3k out as a interupt. agA ~ 3k reminds me of a move Ivy does im not sure what the command for it is but the 3k will beat out almost anything in that situation.

Lets not forget B2A4 ~ SCH. Since this move is so rarley seen Id say its good for a couple of uses.

Seigs bb and aa are next to unusable really. Which is in contrast to say Sophies or Algols bb and aa. Ive always though that seigs 3rd B in bb should be a move that you can execute by itself though. Its kinda like a second 3 and I think it has good gauge damage properties.

Say does anyone use 6b? I find it ridiculously steppable and risky
 
Say does anyone use 6b? I find it ridiculously steppable and risky
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When someone is whiffing a move at a mid-long range distance 6B does work its wonders. or when a sieg is doing WR AA. It also whiffs highs.

I also use B2A, K, 11_77B often, Haven't found a use for 4BBB yet. The last hit always whiffs unless CH.

A+B i often use after the wall combo FC B+G SCH B A+B
 
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