Juez
DragonPuncher
It does put you in force crouch on hit and has pushback.
Matchup Discussion Thread
- Thread starter crow_winters
- Start date
- Moderator
- #82
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Guess it's a WR AB punish, then. Need to do some testing.
- Thread starter
- #83
crow_winters
[11] Champion
If WR AB is too far away, 6K should punish it consistently. You lose out the damage war though by like... 12 damage. I wonder if CE punishes 6K2 on hit.
Slade
[14] Master
If you activate Voldo's LF B+K armor with 2B, you can RCC 1B+K to avoid the UB attack he does and he has no way of avoiding 1B+K.
Also versus Voldo, if you block any of his Landfish attacks (barring LF (A) and LF B BE, which you should JG), you can punish with WR B if he tries to keep attacking. If he does 2_8 after a LF attack the WR B will hit off-axis and the followup combo won't work (this happens consistently), and if he does LF K, WR B won't combo. However, if you predict LF K, 44K will connect against it for about 40 damage.
If you block 22(B) and do 2A, if he does BS B+K both attacks will whiff but his recovery is so long you get a WR B punish. This is a bit of an option select as it covers both BS 2A+B and BS B+K after he enters, which are the common evasive methods of staying in Blind Side.
BS 2A+B goes underneath 66A and 3K. Be warned.
WR B combo has a different timing and different followups against BT opponents. Generally you should do the BT B+K immediately instead of delaying it, then do 8B+K → 44K_44BAA. The 44K version does 101 damage (!). Due to the pushback of 2A+B preventing you from punishing it with WR B except at a close range block, it's recommended that you run forward and 2G when you expect it.
Also versus Voldo, if you block any of his Landfish attacks (barring LF (A) and LF B BE, which you should JG), you can punish with WR B if he tries to keep attacking. If he does 2_8 after a LF attack the WR B will hit off-axis and the followup combo won't work (this happens consistently), and if he does LF K, WR B won't combo. However, if you predict LF K, 44K will connect against it for about 40 damage.
If you block 22(B) and do 2A, if he does BS B+K both attacks will whiff but his recovery is so long you get a WR B punish. This is a bit of an option select as it covers both BS 2A+B and BS B+K after he enters, which are the common evasive methods of staying in Blind Side.
BS 2A+B goes underneath 66A and 3K. Be warned.
WR B combo has a different timing and different followups against BT opponents. Generally you should do the BT B+K immediately instead of delaying it, then do 8B+K → 44K_44BAA. The 44K version does 101 damage (!). Due to the pushback of 2A+B preventing you from punishing it with WR B except at a close range block, it's recommended that you run forward and 2G when you expect it.
Slade
[14] Master
When a Seigfraud or Nightmare player starts a round off with agA, 6A, or 66A, what they're trying to tell you is that they're nice enough to give you a free 663B combo to start off the match. Take the 100 point life lead.
Slade
[14] Master
I hate to be a pessimist when it comes to matchups, but Pyrrha Omega out-damages, out-guard bursts, out-punishes, out-attacks, and possibly even out-spaces and out-throws Aeon. The things that are giving me the most trouble are:
DNS B - Murders backstep, safe, STC, pushes back to a strong range for her. Backdash after it evades 66A.
4B - Fuck this move.
4A - Safe, hit confirmable, huge damage. String mixup on block makes it risky to challenge.
66A - Safe mid stepkiller with good range and a TC.
CE - Punishes everything, even stuff that's safe in most matchups due to pushback (66A+B, WR B). Takes away two of my most important guard burst tools.
WR B - Why is this shit safe.
B+K - Why is this shit safe.
WR B+K - Why is this shit safe.
3A+B/66A+B - Why is this shit safe.
WR A+B - Why is this shit safe.
WR A - Why is this shit safe.
WR K - Why does this shit lead to frame traps.
Why does fucking everything she have break guard.
Why does every move tech crouch.
reptile halp pls
DNS B - Murders backstep, safe, STC, pushes back to a strong range for her. Backdash after it evades 66A.
4B - Fuck this move.
4A - Safe, hit confirmable, huge damage. String mixup on block makes it risky to challenge.
66A - Safe mid stepkiller with good range and a TC.
CE - Punishes everything, even stuff that's safe in most matchups due to pushback (66A+B, WR B). Takes away two of my most important guard burst tools.
WR B - Why is this shit safe.
B+K - Why is this shit safe.
WR B+K - Why is this shit safe.
3A+B/66A+B - Why is this shit safe.
WR A+B - Why is this shit safe.
WR A - Why is this shit safe.
WR K - Why does this shit lead to frame traps.
Why does fucking everything she have break guard.
Why does every move tech crouch.
reptile halp pls
- Moderator
- #87
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Did it not look 5:5 when I played Partisan?
Slade
[14] Master
During finals? Yes. During moneymatch? No.
I'll go rewatch the videos and see if I can pick up on anything. Losing the ability to use 66A+B, WR B, 3B, and 33B to damage the guard gauge is what's killing me here. AA and 4B being near useless because of her tech crouches is also problematic.
Okay, so at extreme tip range she cannot punish 3B except with CE. At mid she can BB it, and up close she gets 236B:4.
- Moderator
- #89
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Punish WR B with CE is pushing it. It's possible, but that kinda shit ain't happening in an intense match like we had.
I messed up a lot of stuff in finals that I'm usually on point with online. Partisan too. You're still relying on numbers too much, Slade. And from you saying you don't have any intention to show up anywhere, that ain't gonna change any time soon.
I'm just saying people aren't machines, and especially under pressure. And this is why characters like Cervantes and Alpha Patroklos don't always win or win more matches even among top players. What if my effective shit is really easy to pull off with enough experience. (ex: backdash into 3B whiff puinsh) Omega aint got any of that. Punishing a whiff with DNS B for example, requires a more difficult and a longer execution time. That move is not gonna punish any whiffs most of the time. And her 3B sucks.
Also I played like shit in the money match this all. I can't excuse myself using my character. This was proved well enough in the GF's.
Edit: I'd probably agree that this MU is about 6:4 in Omega's favor. But it's nothing like
"ZOMG I can't do anything stupid game I should win I'm tha best after all."
I messed up a lot of stuff in finals that I'm usually on point with online. Partisan too. You're still relying on numbers too much, Slade. And from you saying you don't have any intention to show up anywhere, that ain't gonna change any time soon.
I'm just saying people aren't machines, and especially under pressure. And this is why characters like Cervantes and Alpha Patroklos don't always win or win more matches even among top players. What if my effective shit is really easy to pull off with enough experience. (ex: backdash into 3B whiff puinsh) Omega aint got any of that. Punishing a whiff with DNS B for example, requires a more difficult and a longer execution time. That move is not gonna punish any whiffs most of the time. And her 3B sucks.
Also I played like shit in the money match this all. I can't excuse myself using my character. This was proved well enough in the GF's.
Edit: I'd probably agree that this MU is about 6:4 in Omega's favor. But it's nothing like
"ZOMG I can't do anything stupid game I should win I'm tha best after all."
Slade
[14] Master
I don't think it's at all unfeasible to punish WR B with CE. However, I've come to the conclusion that I just need to practice this matchup more. Aeon versus Sieg started off hard for me but after playing that matchup to death I have a firm understanding of my options and his options at different situations and it feels like a 5-5 based on who makes the better reads, even though it's worse for Aeon in theory.
I need to find my best ways to let that bitch know she can't just press buttons without thinking so I can actually start taking advantage of the mindset of the player using her.
I need to find my best ways to let that bitch know she can't just press buttons without thinking so I can actually start taking advantage of the mindset of the player using her.
Slade
[14] Master
Against Maxi, after blocking RO B, try 9B. You'd be surprised at the results.
Slade
[14] Master
Versus Hilde, if you just guard the second hit of 6AK series you can interrupt the third hit with 2A. Good way of escaping the mixup at the end of the string.
Mr.MeatHook
[12] Conqueror
How do you guys feel about the Ivy matchup? I get wrecked by good Ivy's.
- Moderator
- #94
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
This is where we talk about matchups. Let's make use of all the threads for what they're for.
Ivy might be Aeon's worst MU. It is very hard to deal with her spacing and has better tools in general at close range. She can also punish 66A. I'd have to look into it more before I can give actual advice about it.
Mr.MeatHook
[12] Conqueror
/world]
Slade
[14] Master
Some random tips on fighting Algol, the worst character in the game:
He can't kill step for shit outside of 2A range. The most he has to threaten you with is 6AAB, which I believe can be OS punished after blocking the first hit with a 66K or 1B BE (needs to be tested; 66K should definitely work) because the first hit is -18 and the 2nd does not jail. I'm going to do the punishment reference for him later so I'll test all of this.
4BA is not a 50/50 for punishing it on block; little back spikes appear briefly before the 2nd hit if 4BA was inputted. They do not appear when just 4B is done. 4BA is not hit confirmable.
623B is 33B punishable on JG or can be stepped on reaction. LOL.
WR B has a nasty tendency to whiff when punishing 6KK.
Stay crouched when JGing the 2nd hit of 2B+KB. It's special mid so it can be JGed with a low JG, which lets you get a WR B punish instead of 3B.
Second hit of 33AB on JG is so negative I never found the exact value. -45 at the very least. Lol33Bpunish probably.
3BB can be stepped to Algol's left or JGed for launch punishes.
11K is -4 on hit and 11B is -7. Don't let him get away with attacking after it. Once he gets scurred of CHs, bait the 623Bs for hilarious punish damage.
Full punishment to come later. Just step a lot against Algol, bait the Shoryukens for silly punishment damage, and don't get hit by 44B.
He also has no goddamn chance of escaping 66A because his movement is the worst in the game, so his only hope is to try to 623B it on prediction (if he starts doing this, you win immediately because the risk/reward here is like 3:1 in your favor) or to JG it (run up and throw).
He can't kill step for shit outside of 2A range. The most he has to threaten you with is 6AAB, which I believe can be OS punished after blocking the first hit with a 66K or 1B BE (needs to be tested; 66K should definitely work) because the first hit is -18 and the 2nd does not jail. I'm going to do the punishment reference for him later so I'll test all of this.
4BA is not a 50/50 for punishing it on block; little back spikes appear briefly before the 2nd hit if 4BA was inputted. They do not appear when just 4B is done. 4BA is not hit confirmable.
623B is 33B punishable on JG or can be stepped on reaction. LOL.
WR B has a nasty tendency to whiff when punishing 6KK.
Stay crouched when JGing the 2nd hit of 2B+KB. It's special mid so it can be JGed with a low JG, which lets you get a WR B punish instead of 3B.
Second hit of 33AB on JG is so negative I never found the exact value. -45 at the very least. Lol33Bpunish probably.
3BB can be stepped to Algol's left or JGed for launch punishes.
11K is -4 on hit and 11B is -7. Don't let him get away with attacking after it. Once he gets scurred of CHs, bait the 623Bs for hilarious punish damage.
Full punishment to come later. Just step a lot against Algol, bait the Shoryukens for silly punishment damage, and don't get hit by 44B.
He also has no goddamn chance of escaping 66A because his movement is the worst in the game, so his only hope is to try to 623B it on prediction (if he starts doing this, you win immediately because the risk/reward here is like 3:1 in your favor) or to JG it (run up and throw).
Mr.MeatHook
[12] Conqueror
What are you supposed to do against Maxi? The dude's a fucking machine :(
ViruzCroc
[08] Mercenary
I generally don't have many problems with ivy. What I see is that most of them will try to sidestep and counter attack any vertical and even horizontal attacks I may dish out. What works for me is using that to my advantage and putting out 22A at the adequate times, then follow up.
Maybe it's my specific play style but I hate going up against good Mitsurugis and Maxis.
Maybe it's my specific play style but I hate going up against good Mitsurugis and Maxis.
Mr.MeatHook
[12] Conqueror
Alot of Ivy's online seem desperate to backstep away from you. It's usually good for at least 2 66A's even on good ones.
AlphaKEG
[10] Knight
Well if you see Maxi perform 66B......you have 2 options that will work all the time.
Option I:
8K(Tested)*Not 7K or 9K*
- Beats out LI A
- Beats out LI B
- Beats out LI K
- Beats out B+K (Neutral Guard)
- Beats out LI 4 (True Seven)
- Beats out LI 6 (Pure Seven)
- Beats out G stance cancel
- Free knockdown and is stylish
It will not beat out a fully charged LI B, however if fully charged you have enough time to whiff and step the attack before it lands, or you can JG it. This will also beat out a partially charged LI B as well.
Option II:
2A(Tested)
- Beats out LI A
- Beats out LI B
- Beats out fully charged LI B
- Beats out LI K
- Beats out B+K (Neutral Guard)
- Beats out LI 4 (True Seven)
- Beats out LI 6(Pure Seven
- Beats out G stance cancel
- +8 on hit and leaves you in FC
This will be your go to if you're unsure of yourself whenever you see 66B from Maxi as it'll beat everything he is able to do after you block it.
Misc:
As a general rule of thumb against Maxi......he is weak to back-step so utilize Aeon's backstep~punish tactic until you've gained enough knowledge of the match-up. I have more information on how to deal with Maxi but I'm time constrained.