- Moderator
- #41
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
Pat's wide open for punishment if that gets blocked.
-8 on hit is actually safe isn't it? Who has a 7 frame punisher? Patsu's CE isn't even that fast.
Maxi Frame Data Research
- Thread starter Hot Rod Dave
- Start date
-8 on hit is actually safe isn't it? Who has a 7 frame punisher? Patsu's CE isn't even that fast.
Uber1337
[10] Knight
-8 means that it can be punished by i8 moves. So aPat would be able to punish
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
probably not if you add execution frames. That'll be tough as hell.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
which will be blockstun of -8.....
- Moderator
- #46
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
That's -8 on hit though. Does the move impart no hit stun at all?
No
You can imagine a simple move that comes out and recover really quickly. for example the move recover in 16 frames and got a blockstun of 8 frames, that means it's -8 on block but your opponent only have 8 frames of blockstun to buffer the input of his CE
But you can have another move with a great blockstun, that is still -8 on block, with like 40 recover frame and 32 frames of total blockstun : it's still -8 on block
But your opponent got 32 frames to buffer the CE now, which is easier than the previous move
For example, it will be easier to punish a 22(B) on block with Patsuka's CE (guaranteed) than RO A K, which is guaranteed aswell
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
you're not phrasing that well at all. What is simple? Too vague....
bs -8, is bs -8.
What I believe you want to say is that, if the move is SLOW then the opponent has time to hold guard and with his mind's eye see it and buffer CE in the meanwhile and respond accordingly. A FAST move of bs-8 gives you less time to buffer throughout your guard and makes it harder to punish with CE....eg let's just say for instance if Maxi's 3K was bs-8 (It is not btw), that will be much harder to punish than say if 44BG was bs-8.
That's what you're implying right?
Which brings us back to the point that punishing bs-8 is quite difficult unless you're constantly buffering CE waiting for it. Possible, but unlikely for most players.
bs -8, is bs -8.
What I believe you want to say is that, if the move is SLOW then the opponent has time to hold guard and with his mind's eye see it and buffer CE in the meanwhile and respond accordingly. A FAST move of bs-8 gives you less time to buffer throughout your guard and makes it harder to punish with CE....eg let's just say for instance if Maxi's 3K was bs-8 (It is not btw), that will be much harder to punish than say if 44BG was bs-8.
That's what you're implying right?
Which brings us back to the point that punishing bs-8 is quite difficult unless you're constantly buffering CE waiting for it. Possible, but unlikely for most players.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Where are you from? Your english is quite good imo
minimaxi
[09] Warrior
Is it possible to research stance transition speeds? Specifically I need to know if there are better options than RC AB by shifting one stance back or forward. Slightly worse (frame wise) is also okay as long as it's low.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
yes it is possible because you have frame data for all the stance attacks.
However there is no need for that data. If you're that curious I can do it....but at the end of the day, as you loop you've already lost +12 frames MINIMUM.
The whole idea of looping is to use the evasive attacks from the stance to counter the opponents response and it works even better when the attack that enters into the stance hits.
eg. You hit with say 4B-> LO. If you didn't do LO attacks the opponent can interrupt your followups with a lotta generic options. However, as LO shifts to RC naturally, you have attacks that can counter these responses. In otherwords 4B on hit -> LO -> RC KK will TC lows. RC B will jump 2As. You MAY counter some sluggish launchers with RC A. Their hesitation plays a big part, and that usually happens when you hit with something like 4B because they expected the usual LO B followup
However there is no need for that data. If you're that curious I can do it....but at the end of the day, as you loop you've already lost +12 frames MINIMUM.
The whole idea of looping is to use the evasive attacks from the stance to counter the opponents response and it works even better when the attack that enters into the stance hits.
eg. You hit with say 4B-> LO. If you didn't do LO attacks the opponent can interrupt your followups with a lotta generic options. However, as LO shifts to RC naturally, you have attacks that can counter these responses. In otherwords 4B on hit -> LO -> RC KK will TC lows. RC B will jump 2As. You MAY counter some sluggish launchers with RC A. Their hesitation plays a big part, and that usually happens when you hit with something like 4B because they expected the usual LO B followup
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Frames 8-19
Startup? not too sure. i(fast).
Startup? not too sure. i(fast).
TerribleGhost
[09] Warrior
Is the aGI the same startup frames no matter what stance you're in?
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
difficult question to answer. the aGI startup SPEED is consistent BUT depending on the attack that enters stance it may appear as if the speed is inconsistent. This is obviously because different moves have different blockstuns. So a slower recovering move into stance will have aGI starting later than a move that gives good adv into stance...eg 44B vs 66B
- Thread starter
- #58
Hot Rod Dave
"Saucy saucy minx"
I kinda thought the aGI frames would start up the same no matter what stance it comes out of. Because i would think that it may take different frames to get to the aGI. but the actual start up frames of the aGI itself are the same no matter what.
Dunno if im getting across what im trying to say.
HRD
Dunno if im getting across what im trying to say.
HRD
- Thread starter
- #59
Hot Rod Dave
"Saucy saucy minx"
I kinda thought the aGI frames would start up the same no matter what stance it comes out of. Because i would think that it may take different frames to get to the aGI. but the actual start up frames of the aGI itself are the same no matter what.
Dunno if im getting across what im trying to say.
HRD
Dunno if im getting across what im trying to say.
HRD
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Not sure what you're trying to say :p
Reread my post, you may be saying the same thing I am
Reread my post, you may be saying the same thing I am