Missing character discussion

[TGrrr89]

Leixia needs a good ol' mud stomp from Stone Cold Steve Austin and walk her dry

I'd rather have him give the mud stomp to Pre-Alpha Patroklos any day. Have him take him out and bring back Zas or Talim.

And one more thing, Leixia's ROFLsword goes slice slice slice slice slice!

 

[UnseenWombat]

Well, weather or not those mimics were intended to be in the game from the start isn't something that anymore matters at this point. All we know is that those mimics were designed to be in the game, while characters like Zas, Talim, Yun, and others weren't. With that in mind, you can't call them "missing" if they were never there.

miss·ing/ˈmisiNG/

Adjective:

1. (of a thing) Not able to be found because it is not in its expected place.

Yeah, pretty much everyone expected these characters to be there. That the PS team unilaterally decided to not include them or design the game so they couldn't be included is irrelevant. We expected them, they're not there. They're missing.

Also,

miss·ing
adj.
1.
a. Not present; absent.
b. Lost: a missing person; soldiers missing in action.
2. Lacking; wanting: This book has 12 missing pages.

Definition 1A describes the situation perfectly.

 

[IdleMind]

Yeah, pretty much everyone expected these characters to be there. That the PS team unilaterally decided to not include them is irrelevant. We expected them, they're not there. They're missing.

So you are saying that expectation is the only prerequisite?

Well look I EXPECTED Ryu in this game because *reasons*

Discuss.

My point is, the use of missing implies people have a sense of justified bitching, which frankly is not true.

 

[UnseenWombat]

If someone wanted to talk about Ryu being missing and they had solid reasons for having expected him, they would be justified in discussing it. Of course, we all know there are no good reasons to expect Ryu, therefore, we would all justifiably ridicule them for even suggesting it.

Someone could make the case that Bayonetta is missing though, because IIRC, the team did consider her. (Right? My memory isn't so good).

I could have called it "Disincluded character discussion" but I'm not really keen on using $5 words to begin with, and I think most people here understood missing to just mean "absent." It's been a while since I read all 11 pages of this thread. Has it really caused that much of a problem?

 

[IdleMind]

If someone wanted to talk about Ryu being missing and they had solid reasons for having expected him, they would be justified in discussing it. Of course, we all know there are no good reasons to expect Ryu, therefore, we would all justifiably ridicule them for even suggesting it.

Someone could make the case that Bayonetta is missing though, because IIRC, the team did consider her. (Right? My memory isn't so good).

I could have called it "Disincluded character discussion" but I'm not really keen on using $5 words to begin with, and I think most people here understood missing to just mean "absent." It's been a while since I read all 11 pages of this thread. Has it really caused that much of a problem?

I merely take issue with ambiguity. At the point where PS said they were forwarding the timeline by 17 years, nobody really had more right than another to expect ANY character as far as I'm concerned, combined with evidence that the entire game was intended as a "shake-up". To me expecting Talim or Zas is equally ridiculous to expecting Ryu or Necrid.

I just don't like it enabling people to feel that excessive after-the-fact complaining is justified, that's all.

 

[UnseenWombat]

I don't think a single word enables anyone to justify their complaining. If they want to complain, they'll complain whether it's called "missing" character discussion or "excluded" character discussion. (And if there is no discussion, they'll each make their own, for each character they wanted). And if the bitching gets out of hand, that's why the casual forum now has a moderator. ;)

Also, I think it was more reasonable to expect Talim (really young) or Zasalamel (immortal) to be included in a game set 17 years later, than to expect to see someone like Voldo, who's now like 60 years old.

 

[IdleMind]

I don't think a single word enables anyone to justify their complaining. If they want to complain, they'll complain whether it's called "missing" character discussion or "excluded" character discussion. (And if there is no discussion, they'll each make their own, for each character they wanted). And if the bitching gets out of hand, that's why the casual forum now has a moderator. ;)

Also, I think it was more reasonable to expect Talim (really young) or Zasalamel (immortal) to be included in a game set 17 years later, than to expect to see someone like Voldo, who's now like 60 years old.

How is any one character more reasonable than another in a fantasy world that has no internal consistency to hinge logic on? It's a game, the only logic you can go by is the whimsy of developers and publishers.

 

[UnseenWombat]

Even though it's a fantasy world, it's still modeled on the real world. And it does have internal consistency. The story has progressed in a (mostly) logical fashion starting with the events of Soul Blade. If PS expects us to buy into this fantasy world they created, and accept the characters' motivations and actions, they have to have it be somewhat consistent, or give us an explanation as to why it's not.

If one day the whimsy of PS leads them to replace all characters with giant talking prairie dogs, that would not be acceptable from a story perspective unless they gave us a darn good reason for it happening. As it is, we got zero reason as to why Talim wasn't included, even in the Japanese art book. I'm not sure about Zas.

And Talim is more reasonable to expect than Voldo, because they told us that some characters were not included because they got too old. Voldo is also old. Talim is not. Their policy of replacing old characters and keeping younger ones is applied inconsistently.

 

[IdleMind]

Even though it's a fantasy world, it's still modeled on the real world. And it does have internal consistency. The story has progressed in a (mostly) logical fashion starting with the events of Soul Blade. If PS expects us to buy into this fantasy world they created, and accept the characters' motivations and actions, they have to have it be somewhat consistent, or give us an explanation as to why it's not.

If one day the whimsy of PS leads them to replace all characters with giant talking prairie dogs, that would not be acceptable from a story perspective unless they gave us a darn good reason for it happening. As it is, we got zero reason as to why Talim wasn't included, even in the Japanese art book. I'm not sure about Zas.

And Talim is more reasonable to expect than Voldo, because they told us that some characters were not included because they got too old. Voldo is also old. Talim is not. Their policy of replacing old characters and keeping younger ones is applied inconsistently.

It's applied inconsistently because it's based on whimsy, not logic. You do realize they decide he roster, then they justify it in story after the fact, right? Not the other way around? They don't go "Hmm in SC4 this character did this, so logically blah blah blah."

Simply put: That actually isn't how things work.

 

[UnseenWombat]

Yes, I do know it. That's probably the reason the stories of fighting games have such a bad reputation. Maybe they should change that. Would gameplay really suffer? I don't know a lot about game design, but I find it hard to believe they couldn't adjust one or two more characters' move sets to make them work with whatever new engine and roster they have.

 

[IdleMind]

Yes, I do know it. That's probably the reason the stories of fighting games have such a bad reputation. Maybe they should change that. Would gameplay really suffer? I don't know a lot about game design, but I find it hard to believe they couldn't adjust one or two more characters' move sets to make them work with whatever new engine and roster they have.

Should they? Yes.

Do they? Absolutely not.

That's why I'm saying you can't base things like returning characters off internal consistency, because there isn't any. It really just is whimsy, or if you prefer "External consistency" which doesn't align with in-game logic.

 

[jtdam09]

Yes I do. If it wasn't for Pyrrah reminding me of her mother Leixia would be my beating dummy in training.

<<This individual is not amused.

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Leixia may be annoying, but think about it, a 15 year-old girl who was kept in the palace her whole life (after hearing her mother's incredible adveture stories might I add) out in the world for the first time? I'd sure be quite excitable. Her story has also yet to become serious, she is only getting out in the world to adventure and find out about the Dvapara-Yuga, and why her mother is keeping her from the outside world. She honestly sounds like something out of a Disney movie. Honestly, give her a chance, she just needs to learn a little. Xiba is also quite annoying, and anime like at that. He probably lived a simple life until Edge Master told him he must travel to find Kilik and take-up the Kali-Yuga to control it's powers. He's never had to take anything seriously, and he's yet to take his new task seriously. Once he does meet up with destiny, I'm sure he'll change as well.​

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-Pyrrha and Patroklos... where do I begin?... Pyrrha, I don't think she should be given all the grief she gets. She was kidnapped by a schitzephrenic assassin b*tch at age 4, her mother was forced to do terrible things just to save Pyrrha, but then Tira killed Sophitia. Even more, Tira raised and stalked her, just to make sure she would experience as much agony and hatred from society as possible, just so she could become a puppet for Soul Edge... Someone needs to give that poor girl a hug! She was raised to be a tool! Pat too, seems very annoying first, super cocky and stubborn. But he is DESPERATELY trying to avenge his mother and try to put the shambled pieces of his family back together. He was delusioned into being used as tool by Dumas, I felt pretty sorry for the guy when he found out that all the time he was doing (MURDER) favors for the Graf, it wasn't helping him get his family back. He had a strange heel-face turn in personality when he became Apat, but almost shockingly so (whatever, the personality change was welcome). My point, think about being in their shoes a little bit.​

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I think that is exactly what many fail to understand about the characters, so they judge immediately by its cover. You can pretty much tell that some aren't interested in their "backstory". Yet alone "story".

 

[ManlyMan]

<<This individual is not amused.

<<This individual is laughing heartily.

 

[REPROBEAN_CHILD]

<<This individual is not amused.


I think that is exactly what many fail to understand about the characters, so they judge immediately by its cover. You can pretty much tell that some aren't interested in their "backstory". Yet alone "story".

Remember how everyone thought Natsu was a clumsy, ditzy, Naruto-wannabe when she was first announced...and thought otherwise when they saw her in action and after they learned she's with the upper tier? Man I laugh at that now.

 

[jtdam09]

Remember how everyone thought Natsu was a clumsy, ditzy, Naruto-wannabe when she was first announced...and thought otherwise when they saw her in action and after they learned she's with the upper tier? Man I laugh at that now.

Talk about a change of events, huh?

 

[Slade]

Remember how everyone thought Natsu was a clumsy, ditzy, Naruto-wannabe when she was first announced...and thought otherwise when they saw her in action and after they learned she's with the upper tier? Man I laugh at that now.

Well, she still is a ditzy Naruto-wannabe. She just has a ridiculous moveset to back it up.

 

[UnseenWombat]

Remember how everyone thought Natsu was a clumsy, ditzy, Naruto-wannabe when she was first announced...and thought otherwise when they saw her in action and after they learned she's with the upper tier? Man I laugh at that now.

Oh, we still think that. I'm happy she's high tier, but I really wish she would "get serious."

 

[ManlyMan]

Meh. I kick her ass as Siegfried all the time. The only time I've ever gotten pissed is when they kept spamming that bomb crap, and even then, I still won.

 

[ChaosK]

Meh. I kick her ass as Siegfried all the time. The only time I've ever gotten pissed is when they kept spamming that bomb crap, and even then, I still won.

No offense but a good natsu player kicks siegs ass. Natsu is one of the few chars, who can beat absolutely every option from 3(B) and sieg without 3B is like asta without grabs.

 

[ManlyMan]

I guess I've yet to meet a good Natsu player then. Not saying that she's a terrible character, but I haven't found anyone who plays as her/with her style that could consistently beat me is all.