Most technical character?

K

KEmperain

[08] Mercenary
Tiers this, tiers that... I main Sieg and get called left and right for being cheap and all that crap. I know, I know, scrubtalk. What really grinds me is how they disrespect the character and call him a "noob character". It makes me laugh when people think they can play Sieg any better than I can when all they do is do a bunch of repeat Taki kick chains or the same easily read Mitsu mixups. People don't understand that they lose because the player is better--not the character. Tiers do make a difference in fighting games, but they are only applied when players are of near-equal skill. I will admit, Sieg is a good character to learn with, teaching newer players how to block and punish because of his lethargic slow moves and maybe a little spacing. As a higher level play character, he is slow and can be punished, and not to mention easily read unless stances are used properly. He has a couple of moves that TC as well as some good lows, but compared to the rest of the cast, again, he's damned sloooow.

For the point of this topic, I was wondering who the community thinks is the most difficult character to play effectively. In my honest opinion, I believe it'd be Setsuka, only because of her JF madness. I've played a few who do exceptionally well without them, but I'd be scared silly were I to play one who mastered her JFs. Some honorable mentions, I believe, go to Raph and perhaps Amy. I've played one Raph who totally destroyed me with proper prepping because I couldn't react fast enough, or space myself (C'mon, he's got mad speed/range). Amy has her cancels into that dash of hers that can be an intense mixup (6BB? or whatever poke string it is into her dash = major guessing game).

PS. This is in no way trying to make myself sound better than anyone; it was a little vent as well as a question that interested me.
 
You sound like you're playing online... if that's the case, no character is very technical, not even Setsuka, although she does remain input intensive... just not as much.
Additionally, it depends on the level of your opponent... if you're fighting a newbie or an idiot who refuses to fall in your mind games, you cannot be technical, even if you play Setsuka. Fighting in a basic manner is the best in many situations.

And Siegfried does have an advantage where he has a lot of nice low attacks. It's golden online against most people.

Some characters are harder to play, and others get more respect, even if they're easier to play.

It varies from person to person.


But if you want respect, good bets might be : Hilde, Seong Mina, Setsuka, Taki, Talim, Tira, Yoshimitsu.
Maybe Raphael and Yun Seong... Maaaaybe Yoda.
And as much as I hate to list them here because I think they don't belong, Voldo, Xianghua, and Zasalamel. Taki probably should be here too. Some Taki players simply rely on spamming a ton of quick attacks and using bombs. But when they're technical and don't rely on online cheapness, I would guess that they get respect from the better players.
 
@Plume: He knows Siegfried's basic weaknesses, so I don't think he's an ignorant online player.

Anyway, the most technical characters in the game are Setsuka and Ivy, IMHO. The latter has lots of JFs that are essential in high level play, while the latter basically has 3 different movesets, and needs to not only switch between them under pressure but buffer CS and SS as well.
 
@plume: I find your list laughable.

The only good Tira I have ever fought is Soulassassin_23 he is the only Tira I have ever seen use all her tools.
Taki is almost always a bomb spammer or wind roll spammer.

As for the most technical I would say Setsuka, Ivy, and Voldo.

I'm torn about Hilde.
 
Dullyanna said:
@Plume: He knows Siegfried's basic weaknesses, so I don't think he's an ignorant online player.
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I can't tell what you meant by that exactly.
Are you saying that every online player is ignorant, or are you saying that he's not ignorant about how online is played?
I would think that if he gets these reactions for playing Siegfried, it's because he plays online.

Setsuka is indeed the most technical, but online, not that much. She's mostly basic like everyone else.
Silvermoon is the only "technical" thing about her that is useful online. And even then, people use the Sakura Fury version instead because it's easier and just as good. You might want to include 1B:B, but it's hardly a JF.


Impending_Doom66 said:
@plume: I find your list laughable.

The only good Tira I have ever fought is Soulassassin_23 he is the only Tira I have ever seen use all her tools.
Taki is almost always a bomb spammer or wind roll spammer.
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Oh, ok then, if Impending_Doom66 never fought a good Taki, then I should probably remove her from the list of characters that might get respect.

On a less sarcastic note, my list was assuming that he plays them well. And believe it or not, you haven't faced everyone who plays online.



Edit:
And ...damn, I'm tired.
How did I not say that Taki is the most technical character online?
Assuming that you have some little bit of honor and don't use bombs to get you out of bad situations, and don't just spam quick attacks, she's extremely technical. Possession is difficult to use, and the air grab is awesome.

Setsuka might be technical, but most of the technical stuff is unusable online.
Taki on the other hand, her complicated things are usable and useful.
 
I'm sure most people's lists will be personal in nature, but I find Setsuka, Taki, and Hilde to require dexterity above the rest. Setsuka requires her JF's to deal appropriate damage and finish up her command throw and things like 1B:B and her B_K series. Taki for some of her guessing games and PO combos, as well as constantly applying pressure to an opponent. Hilde for requiring solid spacing, pokes, and grab breaking all while holding buttons in a stance you're not immediately used to.
 
I didn't say I have never fought a good taki. You said you will most likely get the most respect from using these characters that is what I find laughable. Good Takis are few and far between. I didn't know you were only implying good players if that's the case the my bad I missread your post.
 
Felix007 said:
Setsuka requires her JF's to (...) finish up her command throw
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I wonder why everyone believes this... I found it to be not true. Or is it required against small hit box characters...?

Impending_Doom66 said:
I didn't know you were only implying good players if that's the case the my bad I missread your post.
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Glad we agree, then.
That made me realize that Dullyanna might have misunderstood my first post as well...
 
I'm only commenting from limited video I've seen of good Setsuka players. Every single one finished her command throw with a JF.

I'm just saying I'd be surprised if someone used Setsuka to win a high ranking tournament without 90% execution rate of her JF's in their arsenal.
 
I understand everyone's lists will be personal, but I just want a consensus. I play both online and offline, but moreso online because of the limited amount of competition I can find here offline. As for the technicality thing, I really don't care much about respect, but rather the difficulty or learning curve in using a character effectively. I want to be able to say "playing this character is not as easy as it looks".
 
In this case, that's pretty much it. Hilde, Ivy, Taki, Setsuka, Tira(66666B et cetera!) and Raphael.
All of them require quite a bit of work to play well, but Hilde and Ivy are probably the only ones that actually *require* some work to be effective. The rest can be dumbed down and remain mostly decent... But when you play them well, it shows.
 
The most difficult character to apply in fighting is Taki hands down.

Taki has to pressure with constant PO use and even adding Windroll into her rushdown coupled with her short range. Not easy at all. If you're encountering people online using 8KKK and whoring bombs, they are just idiots abusing lag.

Hilde is difficult for some. At least for me it is. I can't get used to holding this for a while, releasing or holding this then holding the other almost instantly. I can't do it at all and I find it tedious but I know some people who think this is easy, so depends.

Nightmare is technical as well with his JF agA on standby all the time to rush more safely and has to keep proper spacing and know when to GS. Not easy.

Ivy isn't hard at all. She just has a huge movelist and you can practice CS/SS and it will become second nature. Obviously it takes some time to get used to her movelist but once you do, she ain't hard or technical at all.

Yoshimitsu is technical as far as execution. His execution technics is by far the hardest in the game and some of his better combos and setups require perfect execution or you get punished. Yoshimitsu isn't for the weak.

Setsuka falls in this category as well but not as hard as Yoshimitsu. Not even close.

Taki, Yoshimitsu and Nightmare are the most technical IMO.
 
Hmm, this is a difficult choice.
Technical and difficult are too different things imo. Difficulty has alot to do with matchups, ability of the character, imput and alot of other junk. Technical means mind games and strategies to win...

When it boils down to it, input isn't a problem if you spend alot of time in training. This stops Setsuka and a couple other JF's chars if you ask me. If your talking about being Technical. Difficulty wise, I think shes the hardest to play. Her input is rough, and even if you get it down...in matches you have quite a few things to worry about since she suffers from not having decent lows. Voldo has insane options, which make him quite technical if you ask me.

Ivy, when it boils down to it, your doing a bunch of combos. I've never even seen an Ivy player stance chance and actually utilize her moves. I see combos and her command grabs, which are both not hard to do, especially with practice.

Hilde is just input. lol, kinda like Eddie from GG but alil easier if you ask me. Spend a shitload of time in training, and practice against friends alot and you should have an excellent Hilde. Shes hard to use until you master her input, then its just a matter of strategizing. Not easy, but not too hard.

Its hard to say, cause alot of characters just take practice when it comes to difficulty, with the exception of low tier characters. I'd say Zasalemel, Nightmare, and Talim are the most difficult to play because of how you have to use them to win in high level play.

I'd say the most technical would have to be Tira and Taki. Taki's constant PO rushdown is hard as hell to apply in a fight correctly. Your constantly on your feet hoping for shit to go the way you want. Its not easy, lol... or so i've seen.
Tira in my opinion is up there because controlling gloomy and jolly stance in a fight is REALLY hard. Which gives an unpredictable balance to the character. I play Zappa in GG, and unpredictability can seriously screw you over in high level play in ANY game. Not to mention, Tira has ALOT of just frames. She has to work hard for every win, same with Taki.

Just thought I'd add my two cents. >.>;
 
Promiethius said:
Hmm, this is a difficult choice.
Difficulty has alot to do with matchups, ability of the character, imput and alot of other junk. Technical means mind games and strategies to win...
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they both share a lot of qualities imo, technical to me includes difficulty of inputs as well as precision. that for me would include setsuka, yoshi, ivy and taki.

technical imo is like raw skill, timing and precision. mind games and stratergies don't fall under this caregory but is a different kind of skill and of course is just as important :), i mean a player could be technically great pulling off all the JF's at will but may still lose because he doesn't have the right mind games and uses his shit at the wrong time.
 
First, let me say that most characters in the game have one or two things that require at least a moderate amount of practice to pull off consistently. For Seig, it's being able to flow between his stances and use the exact attack you want to while maintaining your spaces. For Taki, it's using her possession tricks and JFs like A6. Even for Cassandra, it's using her JFs to maximize your potential. Every character has something like this, so every character can be played technically.

The main problem you're going to find, KEmperain, is that the more technically someone plays the game, the more they hate losing to easy mixup (especially online). There's nothing more annoying than sitting in Training mode, mastering a difficult JF, learning setups, and studying frame data . . . and then losing to someone just because they guessed right and never fell for any mind games. And Siegfried has the distinction of being a character who it's very easy to learn a few mixups for and abuse them. Mitsurugi, Kilik, and Sophie also fit this bill, and that's why they're amongst the most popular characters online.

Frankly, the way I play is that I take what my opponent gives me. If you keep trying to attack out of CH and simply let me BB you to death, I'll do it. If you fall for mid/low mixup because you're turtling too much, I'll use it. But, if you're adapting and forcing me to use all of my advanced setups and tricks, then I'll play on that level.
 
With Sets' 214B+G, the 22A+B,A followup doesn't hit on everyone (Raph comes to mind) so 214~3aB is the best option, but it doesn't have to be the JF version to hit. It just has to be timed correctly. Either way, umbrella is the better choice if you can get it consistently because it does more damage.

And how is 1B:B "hardly a JF?" It's done the same way as just about every other JF in the game (albeit with slightly different timing) and requires JF timing to pull off.


Sets doesn't NEED her JFs to succeed either, they just make her better. Basically, they add about 5~8 damage to every juggle and punisher and almost none of them are actually necessary to hitting any juggles that you'd actually use in match. She's unquestionably better WITH her JFs but she's still quite decent without them.
 
Rico said:
And how is 1B:B "hardly a JF?" It's done the same way as just about every other JF in the game (albeit with slightly different timing) and requires JF timing to pull off.
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Well yes, but I thought that most people agreed that it's a very easy one. It's what I meant by that.
 
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