Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion

Answers:

1). Block means that they block the move that you just used. Negative means that your opponent gains a frame advantage over you after blocking your attack. You are most advised to guard afterwards because your opponent will likely punish you for attacking at disadvantage. Positive means that you have the frame advantage over them and can just about continue attacking them even if they block it (although this is not always the case).

2). This is the same as above, however the numbers in this column apply only if you hit them with the move you just used.

3). I am not 100% sure about the Cleans Hits one, but I think if it has a higher letter (i.e. A is higher than B) then it has more of a chance of that move getting a clean hit (which adds extra damage to your attack).

4). Counter Hit is when your attack interrupts the opponent. Most Counter Hits offer extensive combos or a frame advantage. NCC is called Natural Counter Combo I believe, which means that if you hit your opponent with the first part of a move and interrupt them (i.e. get a counter hit) then the rest of the move (e.g. Viola's BBB) will hit them no matter what they do.

If you have any other questions please ask.

P.S. Sorry wombat, I just saw it first :P
 
I also have a little something to add about the first two questions:

If you take Natsu's AAB, and look at the block numbers, it says -8,-10,-14. Each number corresponds with one of the letters.

So the first part (A) if blocked, gives you a disadvantage of -8. Her second move (AA) gives her a disadvantage of -10. And her last move (AAB) gives her a disadvantage of -14. Which means if your opponent uses a fast enough move, they can punish you.

The hit column means the same only it gives you an advantage and it only applies if you hit the opponent with it.
 
I would also like to add that if a move is >+1 on block to keep applying pressure; if a move is ≥-9 but ≤ 0 is safe but block afterwards. ≤-10 is unsafe and can be punished by Natsu's AA.

Other notes: consider push back on your moves. The push back can make a move pseudo safe against certain characters. Also if a move is ≤-8 it can be punished by aPat's CE so watch for it when you have low heath and he has a full bar of meter.
 
Thanks guys! How about putting some of this info (or links to it) in the Natsu movelist thread?

Anyone got an answer about the Clean Hits?

And can anyone tell me how many frames sidestepping, wind-roll, and distorted breeze take? How about stalker and hover?


Finally... my tests (after 1.03) discovered some discrepancies on the damage in the googledocs spreadsheet. (I just wrote down the total damages, not per individual strike.)

BT PO 8B+G = 67 now (listed at 90)
PO 8B+G = 60 total damage now (listed at 48,32 = 80)
2A+B = 7 (listed at 22)
STK B+G = 45 (listed at 60)
236236A+B+K = 62 total (listed at 20,30,22 = 72)
236236A+B+K4 = ditto
A,A,B = 58 total (listed at 8,10,8,10,12 =48)
33_66_99B4 = 38 (listed at 48)
33_66_99A,B = 60 total (listed at 18,36 = 54)
33_66_99A,B4 = 24 (listed at 18)
33_66_99bA+B+K = 58 total (67 for clean hit) (listed at 35,20 = 55)
44K,K(on hit) = 45 (listed at 24,22 = 46)
RM K = 44 (listed at 46)
8A+B = 36 (listed at 38)
B,[K]4 = 28 (listed at 12,18 = 30)
11_77A = 27 (listed at 10,16 = 26)
WS B,4A+B,A = 24 (listed at 18,8 = 26)

So much for "no changes to natsu in 1.03..."

Please double-check my work.

Kind regards,
David
 
Does anyone know how many frames PO transitions are exactly, in 4A+B6, 6A+B4, 4A and 66B4? I remember it got asked before, but don't think anyone ever answered :S Would love to know just how horribly unsafe 4A+B6 really is lol.
 
Hertz_Doughnut said:
Thanks guys! How about putting some of this info (or links to it) in the Natsu movelist thread?

Anyone got an answer about the Clean Hits?

And can anyone tell me how many frames sidestepping, wind-roll, and distorted breeze take? How about stalker and hover?


Finally... my tests (after 1.03) discovered some discrepancies on the damage in the googledocs spreadsheet. (I just wrote down the total damages, not per individual strike.)

BT PO 8B+G = 67 now (listed at 90)
PO 8B+G = 60 total damage now (listed at 48,32 = 80)
2A+B = 7 (listed at 22)
STK B+G = 45 (listed at 60)
236236A+B+K = 62 total (listed at 20,30,22 = 72)
236236A+B+K4 = ditto
A,A,B = 58 total (listed at 8,10,8,10,12 =48)
33_66_99B4 = 38 (listed at 48)
33_66_99A,B = 60 total (listed at 18,36 = 54)
33_66_99A,B4 = 24 (listed at 18)
33_66_99bA+B+K = 58 total (67 for clean hit) (listed at 35,20 = 55)
44K,K(on hit) = 45 (listed at 24,22 = 46)
RM K = 44 (listed at 46)
8A+B = 36 (listed at 38)
B,[K]4 = 28 (listed at 12,18 = 30)
11_77A = 27 (listed at 10,16 = 26)
WS B,4A+B,A = 24 (listed at 18,8 = 26)

So much for "no changes to natsu in 1.03..."

Please double-check my work.

Kind regards,
David
Click to expand...
Okay. I'll check. For the air throws though, remember that damage scaling means that if you used a bomb to get them up in the air, the throw won't do as much damage as it normally would. So we'd expect it to be lower. Try doing a plain airthrow (i.e. against Yoshi's stupid helicopter move) and see if it gives the right damage.

Clean hit A, B and C just refers to the probability of the move being a clean hit. A is most likely, C is least. It's just a random thing that sometimes adds damage to a move.

WR and DB takes something like 35 to 40 frames. I'm not sure when the tech crouch starts. HOV TJ's from frame 13 I believe. I don't have any info on STK.
 
Would anyone be interested in a list of moves that can be countered by Stalker/PO Air Grab? xD I was just messing around in training mode to see which moves it can be used on, it's pretty sure to surprise some opponents when used against them :P I've even had the air grabs work vs 8G, but you have to stand pretty close.
 
Okay so I main Natsu, and recently I've been doing pretty well with my WR K 6A+B4 A:6 3KKK etc combo's and winning tons of matches thanks to it, but I've just got into B grades, and I feel as if I'm missing something very crucial from my game play, I'm just losing so much and it's driving me crazy.

The main characters I lose against are Nightmares and Siegfried's if I guard their moves (which I tend to do alot of) I get Guard Burst multiple times in a fight, I've tried side stepping with 22_88 but they always seem to re-adjust themselves and get me with their vertical attacks.

What I was wondering is what can I do to cause Guard Bursts quicker and recover my Guard meter (I don't know it's name) or just avoid attacks completely as I am failing completely with side stepping...

Also, what are the moves that can lead into possesion that are crucial for a Natsu in high grades. (Moves like 66B4 or B,K4) if there are any more I don't know about as I've looked through the move list numerous times, yet I haven't discovered any, as they could lead into 8Y WR K 6A+B4 A:6 3KKK combo's with my opponent expecting it. (I'm guessing anyway after watching some video's on YouTube and high end Natsu replays)

Another thing (Yes I know I go on :P ) But are there anyother combo's there aren't reliant on a WR or CH except from the ones listed in the move list.

I'm sorry for this being such a long post and I thank anyone who reads the whole thing, but I'd like to try and be the best I can be!

Thanks in advance for any answers for the mass of questions I have put before you ladies and gents, means alot.

<3
 
Raskall95 said:
A whole bunch of text
Click to expand...

From the top of my head, all the moves that lead into Possession:
214 (duh xD)
4A
66B4
66A,B4
B,K4
WS A,A,A4
6A+B4
4A+B6
BT 6B+K, K (Reverse Mill)
22_88K,A4
2_8B+K,K,A4 (Distorted Breeze)
CE4

Which ones are crucial in high play... can't tell you... whatever ones your opponent doesn't expect or whichever ones you can make safe with PO BE or guessing the high-low game right.

I believe landing hits recovers Guard Damage, and between rounds you recover a bit too. Just Guarding also recovers a small bit of Guard Damage. Namco obviously hates turtling, as you get punished for it quite hard.

For combos check the combo section, there are those that don't rely on CH, but almost all of them do:

http://8wayrun.com/threads/natsu-1-02-combo-and-tech-trap-listing.12499/

I have trouble guessing Sieg's hi-low game as well, so I don't have much to say, except that all his stance transitions are unsafe and can usually be interrupted with AA(B)/A:6 and some of Sieg's verticals can magically be stepped by 66B.

As for Nightmare, I just advise you to check his frame data, you'd be surprised how unsafe he really is, almost everything can be punished on guard.
 
Gatexor said:
What he said
Click to expand...

Wow thanks, that's a pretty quick reply and a really good one too. ^^

The only problem is, I don't understand all these -14 and +8 Frame things, my only guess would be that -14 would be when they can't attack for a certain amount of time because they're still in their attack animation?

I don't know, but I will definitely start mixing up my PO Combo's every round and fight so my opponent doesn't know what's comin'!

But damn, thanks alot shame about Siegfried, I suppose he's just trying to work around his stance changes and whiffs, would looking at his Frame Data be worth it?

Thanks again for answering my questions. <3
 
-14 on block, means that the one who used that attack, can NOT block himself for 14 frames if his attack got blocked by the opponent, so if you (the blocker) use an attack that is faster than (or equal to) 14 frames to impact, it will hit guaranteed. This is called block punishing.
Nightmare's attacks have a lot severe minus frames, meaning that as long as you use an appropriately fast move (that can reach him), you can punish him if you block his attacks. My to go to punisher is A:6, but situationally you will need something with more reach. The unsafer (the more minus frames) an attack is on block, the better you can punish it, with something like 66B BE for example (which is relatively slow but more damaging).

Sieg's frames are below average as well, but in many cases have so much pushback, that it's not possible to punish them.

You could also check this:

http://8wayrun.com/threads/natsu-complete-anti-character-guide-project-work-in-progress.12105/

Siegfried's anti-character guide is already written.

PS: For completeness' sake: +frames mean that even on block, the one who used the attack needs less frames to recover than the one who blocked it, meaning that the one who blocked it cannot guard for the number of +frames.

PO B, for example, is +8, if you use it, your opponent will be unable to do anything for 8 frames longer than you. So... you see where this is going... if you, as the attacker, use something that is faster or equal to 8 frames until impact, it will hit guaranteed. Incidentally Natsu has two i8 attacks, 2bA and 4a+bA (kuzukuri), but they do shitty damage so I wouldn't recommend actually trying to do that unless you have some kind of master level mindgame prepared.

Attacks with "lightning" always give + frames and are mainly used as a pressure tool, because it does heavy guard damage and forces the opponent to block the next attack and thus be susceptible to mixups and mindgames.
 
4B is still a really good block punish for things that are - 14 0r -15. you get mid 30s damage with 4B 1A and if they refuse to tech (which they should because its one of the few places a UB bomb cant be jumped in time) then 4B 44KK does like 44 damage.

ive been using it to punish things like pyrrah 1K and 6BK, pat 11B and cervantes WS AB.

people need to stop punishing lows and ducked throws with WS K. its a bad habit that i'm trying to totally break myself of as well. aside from blocked 2Ks which WS K is the only thing that can punish, you should be doing 6A+B4 PO A:6 into 1A/6K/2A+B or 4B into 1A/2A+B/44KK
 
Okay, I found something weird. You know how when PO B+K whiffs or is blocked, she falls to the ground? For some reason, she does the backflip after it if the opponent just guards it instead of regular blocking.
 
I just started playing again after months of inactivity. Having a problem connecting 44K to the end of my combos. Seems to randomly fail. What am I doing wrong?
 
Depnds on what you were trying to combo it after. I think it's only guaranteed directly after a bomb now. Everything else gives the opponent time to ukemi.
 
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