Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion

What are the good oki options for opponents who like to backwards roll (but not tech)? What I've found is that once I get some opponents used to 2A+B/iFC A+B, on Oki, they start doing backwards rolls every time. I suppose PO66B+K works to punish backwards rolls, as does hover B/A+B from the right distances (and 1A, and 44k).
 
mneme said:
What are the good oki options for opponents who like to backwards roll (but not tech)? What I've found is that once I get some opponents used to 2A+B/iFC A+B, on Oki, they start doing backwards rolls every time. I suppose PO66B+K works to punish backwards rolls, as does hover B/A+B from the right distances (and 1A, and 44k).
Click to expand...

For backrollers, I use 4A+B6 against them and chase them down for a PO mixup with PO B+K being the attack of choice. My mixup involves PO B+K, HOV B, HOV A, or PO 2 ~ PO A+B. Another technique I do is chase them down for a 11A/11K mixup. If anyone has any tips for Natsu's okizeme, I'd gladly appreciate it since it doesn't seem as straightforward as other character's oki.
 
Using 4A+B6 is a good idea when you're anticipating the backroll...but...No PO B in your mixup? It does heaps of damage, is +frame on block, and is a straight mixup with PO A+B. (I'd also throw in PO BE K there, as that threat is fairly important).

I've deemphasized use of hover lately, as lots of characters can just use a vertical to hit you out of it. Still good when you're baiting a whiff (of one sort or another) -- and hover A+B has gotten me some good tags when an opponent anticipated a charge, but all too often, like bombing too much, hover is a scrub killer and ends up being a bad habit against good players.
 
I occasionally use PO B in my okizeme, but 9 times out of 10 it whiffs because the opponent just lies there. If I take too long to attack, I get 2A'ed. I use PO B in my neutral standing mixup for the reasons you stated.

I use PO 2 or HOV to ensure that they get up and face my mix-up. However PO A+B does seem to force a reaction from the opponent. Really nice that it can partially catch step too. I find PO BE to be a waste of meter most times since I always have to use it twice in order to get behind the opponent. I only use it if I'm certain the opponent will rush me when I'm in possession. HOV A+B is great against backstep.
 
PO B is good when the opponent is in the middle of teching, but yes, you don't want to use it while they're still on the ground (really, only HOV options and B+K hit grounded out of PO).

BE is best when you're already planning to be snuggled against them (but anticipate an attack). I never use double-Be -- that -is- a waste of meter, but mixing up PO 66 B+K, PO 66 2 A+B, and PO 66 BE K (among others) can be a good mindgame. A PO rush sequence generally gets you where you only need one BE to get BT, but you -can- get hit out of PO rush, so having the BE there as an option helps.
 
Although the PO BE is a guaranteed move evasion, if you're using PO rush from a little bit of distance, you can use PO 2 to quickly evade some moves without having to go into HOV. It's also nice how the tail end of PO 2 covers up the starting frames of PO A+B. Force some poor soul to the back of a wall or an edge and watch them scream in agony!

Aside from PO B, what are some other great close range pressure options? 6KA & 6B are nice but not strong enough on the guard guage. AAB is too unsafe for regular use and B[K] gets ducked. I'm also trying to incorporate 44A into my repotoire. I wanna break overly defensive Hilde and Pyrrha Omega players.
 
PO 2 does some evasion? Didn't know that, though it makes sense given that PO 2 has some frames where it's airthrow-able. The fact that PO 2 covers up some starting frames from PO A+B is a big deal, and I've taken advatnage of that on occasion (though I don't use PO 2 much, due to it losing to pretty much everything that kills HOV and more -- best used sparingly).

22A is a godsend -- fantastic against Mits players who overuse BB/4B (as 44A will beat 4B even when you don't anticipate it about 75% of the time due to the double sidestep). Very worth working into your game. One can't forget 2A/2B (often, but not always, into WR K). Despite the unsafeness, I've had good luck occasionally throwing out an a:6; easy to overuse, but not that unsafe, and it's a great way to punish someone from hitting buttons.

Grabs? A+B? I've been liking A+B more and more as a quick jumping attack that beats a lot of options (although against Sigfreid I've found that mixing 8A+B into my game helps).

I've also found that 2K/2KK is a -very- good way to close the deal when an opponent has very little life left. (4A is the other good low poke).
 
PO 2 mostly is a HOV bluff, but it does have a few frames of evasion. I mostly use it to get off a PO B, PO A+B or a PO B+K mix up. People don't like to attack you during PO 2 compared to HOV because they have no idea what you'll do.

I wish the input was easier on PO 466B+G since it's hard to do that move on reaction. I pretty much have to plan the PO throw out since you have to hold 4 as you go into PO. That throw is great against people who sidestep PO mixups. Does great damage too and leads to a nice oki set up.

My playstyle involves a healthy diet of A+B4 and A+B. If you're remotely in range, you're likely gunna eat one of my A+B's. Such an amazing spacing move. I also try and grab as much as I can against some opponents, because they don't dare duck my 66B's or 66B BE's. 8A+B is also gold, especially the BT version. So 44A is best used as a counterattack? I try and use it as a step catcher but am iffy with its start speed.

I cannot describe how much I love interrupting someone with an A:6 to the face. Probably one of the most satisfying feelings you'll ever get.
 
i think mneme was describing 22A when he was talking about 44A. 44A definitely does not have a double sidestep. problem with 44A is there isnt really a situation where i'd want to use it over 66A or A+B. it hurts alot that its -14 on block.

you guys were talking about oki, and admittedly its one of natsu's worst areas. she doesnt have a move that makes people want to get off the ground. 4A+B and 1A are blockable on reaction and she doesnt have that chunky power mid that will make people stop side rolling. she is limited to using 1K, 2K, 6K, 1B and 2B. all of these are pretty low damage, except for 6K which is a nice chunky 20 damage. if FC A+B didnt lose its stun it would have been your go to option to make people want to stand, but she just doesnt have a damaging threat to make people afraid to roll on the ground.

this was mentioned before, but HOV becomes almost useless against an opponent who knows natsu. if you play my main sparring partner, he will run under your HOV and back throw you/launch you everytime. PO2 PO A+B will get stepped as will PO B. i'm not saying i never catch him with anything from a 4A+B6 PO/HOV wakeup, but more often than not its me who is on the receiving end of the punishment for trying it.
 
kAb said:
i think mneme was describing 22A when he was talking about 44A. 44A definitely does not have a double sidestep. problem with 44A is there isnt really a situation where i'd want to use it over 66A or A+B. it hurts alot that its -14 on block.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was talking about 22A.

Of the 44s, I remember one of them (44B?) has a small backstep which is useful, but I don't throw it out that often. the other (44A) seems like junk that I only throw out by accident.

kAb said:
you guys were talking about oki, and admittedly its one of natsu's worst areas. she doesnt have a move that makes people want to get off the ground. 4A+B and 1A are blockable on reaction and she doesnt have that chunky power mid that will make people stop side rolling. she is limited to using 1K, 2K, 6K, 1B and 2B. all of these are pretty low damage, except for 6K which is a nice chunky 20 damage. if FC A+B didnt lose its stun it would have been your go to option to make people want to stand, but she just doesnt have a damaging threat to make people afraid to roll on the ground.
Click to expand...

What about HOV A+B, 41236B, and PO (66) B+K?

kAb said:
this was mentioned before, but HOV becomes almost useless against an opponent who knows natsu.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not that fond of HOV (frankly, a 4B+K is safer to avoid mids and may give you massive backturned damage if your opponent makes a mistake), though I'll use it occasionally to avoid lows and go into COD. It's stronger on wakeup or at longish range -- an opponent who throws out moves or stance transitions when they're "safe" might eat a HOV A+B (though again, someone who -really- knows the matchup may be able to get a big backturned hit out of it by stepping into it).
 
kAb said:
i think mneme was describing 22A when he was talking about 44A. 44A definitely does not have a double sidestep. problem with 44A is there isnt really a situation where i'd want to use it over 66A or A+B. it hurts alot that its -14 on block.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 22A is an excellent move and a great sidestep poke but I've seen a solid player (Saion I think...) make use of 44A. It seems like a bit of a defensive manoeuvre and trying to see if I can cut off some opponents' attacks with it. I like how 44A crumples on hit for a nice 2A+B tech trap. 44B is alright as a sidestep and feint attack but its lack of range requires you to be fairly close. 11A & 11K get the most use of my retreating 8wayrun attacks.

kAb said:
you guys were talking about oki, and admittedly its one of natsu's worst areas. she doesnt have a move that makes people want to get off the ground. 4A+B and 1A are blockable on reaction and she doesnt have that chunky power mid that will make people stop side rolling. she is limited to using 1K, 2K, 6K, 1B and 2B. all of these are pretty low damage, except for 6K which is a nice chunky 20 damage. if FC A+B didnt lose its stun it would have been your go to option to make people want to stand, but she just doesnt have a damaging threat to make people afraid to roll on the ground.
Click to expand...

The more I get use to Natsu, the more I believe that her oki is lacking. The guide rates her oki as a solid "7/10" (albeit including the caltrops stun) but so many of her oki options can be shut down easily making her wake-up game a little limited. I see myself more and more just alternating between 4A+B6 or 2A+B when I'm deciding not to rush them down for a mix-up. On the bright side, these two bomb attacks do seem to discourage rolling or teching. 41236B is a nice standard ground-hitting UB but only seems to work if the grounded opponent is disoriented or have never seen the move before. It feels a tad gimmicky at the moment but is still an option.

kAb said:
this was mentioned before, but HOV becomes almost useless against an opponent who knows natsu. if you play my main sparring partner, he will run under your HOV and back throw you/launch you everytime. PO2 PO A+B will get stepped as will PO B. i'm not saying i never catch him with anything from a 4A+B6 PO/HOV wakeup, but more often than not its me who is on the receiving end of the punishment for trying it.
Click to expand...

Sadly not just HOV, but when I face a Natsu player myself, 95% of the time when they go into PO (nevermind HOV), I generally sidestep almost everything they go for. It feels like I'm finding ways to defeat my own character. PO A+B can be stepped, though you need to step all the way around. PO B is best as a sudden pressure move since it's the move that opponents look out for the most in PO, along with PO B+K. I still feel that Natsu is very strong, but with all these vulnerabilities, I'm not certain if all of her nerfs were really necessary in the long run. They seemed like the result of early outcries and whining.
 
PO A6 is good against people who try to step PO stuff.
and SM into PO A6 might work to stop people who frequently step HO B or who backstep HO A.
On CH PO A6 gives guaranteed 3KKK~ k2.
 
FleshMasher said:
PO A6 is good against people who try to step PO stuff.
and SM into PO A6 might work to stop people who frequently step HO B or who backstep HO A.
On CH PO A6 gives guaranteed 3KKK~ k2.
Click to expand...

Oh... I forgot about PO A6. It's definitely a less common technique used but can be useful to catch step especially if you can get PO A:6. A lot of times I get PO A instead as a consolation, which acts as a bit of a reset instead (which isn't really bad either). The damage is low but PO A6 or PO A can intercept step, which can act as a nice deterrent.

What do you think of PO 466B+G? I've found it to be a nifty mix-up in a clinch.
 
Just started learning Natsu, is there a trick to hitting A:6 after 3B?

I can do it standalone ok but after 3B it seems way harder to get it. I struggle getting it after 22B as well but not as much as 3B. Feels weird coming from ear slicer after launch to this input.

PO A:6 doesn't seem too bad for me though.

The journey starts here!
 
I'd been having trouble with 3B A:6 recently as well, but I realized that if you wait til they fall just around head level for Natsu before inputting the A, it'll come out more consistently. At least that was my problem anyway: I was hitting the A way too early. Still not consistent with it, but I'm working on it too.
 
Guess i can share this, So when you know PO BE K is not going to connect, what i do to keep myself safe and from mixups on block, instead of finishing this BT PO K , i just use PO A:6 to get distance and interrupt their attempt to punish with BT A+B, or if u think a high is coming then use RWR (Reverse Wind Roll) K into the Air Throw for 100 damage.
 
rudeb0y said:
Just started learning Natsu, is there a trick to hitting A:6 after 3B?

I can do it standalone ok but after 3B it seems way harder to get it. I struggle getting it after 22B as well but not as much as 3B. Feels weird coming from ear slicer after launch to this input.

PO A:6 doesn't seem too bad for me though.

The journey starts here!
Click to expand...

What i do is wait for the A to connect after 3B, once u get the timing on when the A connect, then A:6 will be a piece of cake for u. Practice makes better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom