Nightmare Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

[Schneider-X]

you've kinda confused me a little now. When you say parallel you mean this? The X's are the characters

wall
------------
x > < x

Setting it to front of the wall for stage reset would make the positioning like this, right? I would call this perpendicular with the wall.

wall
----------
x
v

^
x

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

Yeah, I suppose it would be more perpendicular, since he would have to be facing the wall.

 

[Engared]

you've kinda confused me a little now. When you say parallel you mean this? The X's are the characters

wall
------------
x > < x

Setting it to front of the wall for stage reset would make the positioning like this, right? I would call this perpendicular with the wall.

wall
----------
x
v

^
x

I remember in SC4 there was a combo from B+G W! which was only doable from that position.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

So, you guys know how 22_88B will randomly do a face down head first knockdown? Turns out its caused by hitting a backturned jumping opponent. Dunno if there's another cause, but its the only one I could find in training mode.

Off this knockdown, he gets some interesting stuff. Keep in mind though, that because this particular setup is a bitch to test, I could only test against Voldo, so some of the tech traps might not work on other characters, and some might work on other characters that don't work on Voldo.

If they ukemi to NM's left, FC3B will catch them for 116 damage.
If they ukemi to NM's right, RCC 3B will catch it for 129 damage.
If they stay down, dash forward 2a+b is free, attack throw and all, for 102 damage. RCC 2a+b works too, and makes it catch right ukemi, but no AT. Might work against a wall though.
Also, If they stay down, either FC throw will pick them up. If they ukemi in any direction, you'll get the throw animation for 83 damage.

1K is also guaranteed here for a whopping 65 damage.

 

[Pernicious-Soul]

I haven't played since I posted about 2a+b after 66b but plan on alittle testing tonight. I should have been more clear as after 66b catches tech, you get 2a+b ground stab not air hit. Your gauge loves this lol

 

[Slade]

So, you guys know how 22_88B will randomly do a face down head first knockdown? Turns out its caused by hitting a backturned jumping opponent.

This happens surprisingly often against certain characters. Tech step + any forward-moving TJ attack will get the megic splat. Think of the implications of that versus Mitsurugi for example, who likes to approach with 33K and has shitty punishment on blocked 88B.
Also, what about GS K BE as an option for no tech?

 

[Slade]

Interesting. CH 4KK W! → 4KK W! → Back throw is a combo against BT opponents (such as after GS A) for 137 damage. I can't find any other situations where 4KK W! allows a throw afterwards, not even with 4A, which results in the BT 4KK hits.

 

[Schneider-X]

Interesting. CH 4KK W! → 4KK W! → Back throw is a combo against BT opponents (such as after GS A) for 137 damage. I can't find any other situations where 4KK W! allows a throw afterwards, not even with 4A, which results in the BT 4KK hits.

I don't think this is universal since I just did a quick test on Viola and the throw didn't land after CH 4KK or CH GS A.

 

[Slade]

I don't think this is universal since I just did a quick test on Viola and the throw didn't land after CH 4KK or CH GS A.

Character specific then. I should've specified that I tested on Mitsurugi.

 

[SilentWall]

Ok. Someone maybe think I’m stupid to do that, but I have spent 1 month to do this strategy. It includes so much sweat inside. I hope you guys like it.


Wall combo reset project

Ok. I just want to show you how to make a reset easier in a Wall combo. Since most of Wall combo start from GSKbe, I will use it to explain the Wall combo showing below. At the same time, it also works on the combo of 4A, (ch)4KK, 1aK, FCB+G and all move starters into GSKbe. By the way, there are few things you need to remember.

First of all, every Wall Hit has different altitude. If the altitude of Wall Hit is too low, you are unable to connect a 4KK. So that you should take the free damage by 2A+B, 3B, 1K or the other mix-ups such as 2[K] and GSKbe. Of course, if the Wall Hit gives you enough time to do a standing hit of 4Kbe, iWSB or 3B, just do them because they will always bring up a tech-trap, or you can do a Step>GSKbe to change the direction of RO. Very useful.
For example:
GSKbe>W>BS>4KK--> 4Kbe_iWSB_3B
GSKbe>W>BS>4KK--> Step>GSKbe>RO

To keep in mind that, if you did a first GSKbe>Wall Hit, you still have one more chance to change the direction of Wall Hit by another GSKbe and then you can land a 3B,4Kbe or iWSB. That will help you to reset your Wall combo in a correct direction.
For example:
GSKbe>W>Step>GSKbe>W--> 3B_4Kbe_iWSB

Second, you have to learn how to see the Side of Wall Hit. The Side of Wall Hit can bring you the different kinds of Wake Up. For example: 4Kbe(Back Side Hit) can give you an All Side Tech Trap for 3B, but 4Kbe(Front Side Hit) will not. After the first GSKbe’s Wall Hit, 4KK is the best and easiest way to get another Wall Hit. With this 4KK, you have enough time to see which side of Wall Hit and do the follow-up by reaction.
For example:
GSKbe>W>see which side of wall hit>4KK>enough time to make a decision>follow up such as 3B, iWSB and 4Kbe.

In my experience, if I see a Back Side Hit, I prefer to do 3B because I can have more options to do more damage. Also, if I have spare meter, I will do 4Kbe.
If I see a Front Side Hit, I prefer to do 3AA, because it will give an All Side Tech-traps for 1A if it is pushing to tend to Wall. Another option I will do is an iWSB. However, I do not prefer iWS[B)(FSHit)>NSSA+B because it is not reliable against to skinny characters such as Leixia.

The following Wall combo is showing the Side of Wall Hit, Tech Trap and Mix-ups in details. It is just for reference. If you want to read more, please skip it and jump to the third paragraph.

Wall Hit (Back Side against to you):
(The damage showing below is from GSKbe’s Wall combo.)

W>BS>4KK--> 3B(89+>tech>168)_3[B)(89+>tech>132)_4Kbe(105+>tech>182)
_iWS[B)(85+>soul>112)_iWSB(85+>soul>100)
_Step>GSKbe(directional RO)
----------------------------------------------

W>BS>4KK>3B--> 1A(tech except Maxi)
_Time3[B)(techNL,charSpec>tech)_GSB(techNL)
_44[B)(techNR,dead>GrHitSetup)_33B(techNR)
_StepF>3AA(techND)
_2A+B(AT)
Mix-ups#1:_Step/4A+BG>GSKbe(roll>reset,dead>ro)_Step>2[K](stand)
Mix-ups#2:_CE(roll)_4A+B(stand)
W>BS>4KK>3[B)--> TimeGSKbe(tech>reset)
_TimeGSKbe(roll>reset)_NSSG>2[K](stand)

W>BS>4KK>4Kbe--> 3B(tech)
Mix-ups:_2[K](stand,roll)_TimeGSKbe(roll>reset)

W>BS>4KK>iWS[B)>NSSA+B--> GSKbe(tech>reset)
_Time1A(techNL)_Time44B(techNR)
_Time33B(techNR)_A+B(techND)_FCThrow(tech)
_2A+B(AT>112)
Mix-ups:_2[K](roll/stand)_DelayGSKbe(roll>reset)

W>BS>4KK>iWSB--> GSKbe(tech>reset)
_Time1A(techNL)_4B(techNDL)_Time33B(techNR)
_Time44[B)(techNDR)_A+B(techND)_FCThrow(PickUp/tech)
_2A+B(AT>100)_1A(100)
Mix-ups:_2[K](roll/stand)_DelayGSKbe(roll>reset)
______________________________________

Wall Hit (Front Side against to you):
(The damage showing below is from (ch)4KK’s Wall combo.)

W>FS>4KK--> iWSB_iWS[B)>NSSA+B_3AA(117+)_3[B)(106+>126)
_Step>GSKbe(directional RO)
--------------------------------------

W>FS>4KK>iWSB--> GSKbe(tech>reset)
_GSDelayB(techNL)_Time1A(techNL)
_Time66B(techNR)_Time33B(techNR)
_Time3[B)(techND)
_Time44[B)(techNDR)_4BB(techNDL)
_66B(63)_2A+B(AT>52)_GSKbe(54,ro)_FCThrow
Mix-ups:_2[K](stand)_DelayGSKbe(roll>reset)

W>FS>4KK>iWS[B)>NSSA+B--> GSKbe(tech>reset)
_GSB(techNL)_1A(techNL)
_66B(techNR)_44[B)(techNR,dead>GrHit)
_Time33B(techNR)
_FCThrow(tech)
_2A+B(AT>73)_66B(80 except Yoshi)_GSKbe(73,ro)
Mix-ups:_2[K](dead)_DelayGSKbe(roll>reset)
** This NSSA+B combo follow-up is not reliable for skinny characters such as
Leixia, Pyrrha……

W>FS>4KK>iWS[B)--> TimeGSKbe(tech>reset)
_TimeGSB(techNL,charSpec>tech)_TimeNSS[A](techND)_
_StepF>NSSA+B(techNDR)
_GSB(53)_GSKbe(52,ro)

W>FS>4KK>3AA(TendToWall)--> 1A(tech>117+>200)

W>FS>4KK>3[B)--> GSDelayKbe(tech>reset)
_StepF>NSSA+B(GrHit/techNRD)_GSDelayB(techNL)


Third, to keep in minds that there is only one action opponent done you can get the reset ~ It is a Tech-roll. (Not Playing Dead)
For example:
GSKbe>W>BS>4KK>3B--> 1A6 catches the tech-rolls > reset >GSKbe > Wall Hit.
GSKbe>W>BS>4KK>3B--> GSKbe catches the tech-rolls > reset > Wall Hit.

However, when the wall combo is going on, GSKbe catching a Playing Dead will not give you a reset, unless, you have already reset the Wall combo.
For example: GSKbe>W>BS>4KK>3B--> GSKbe catches Playing Dead > no reset.

In the following example, GSKbe catching a Playing Dead will give you a Wall Hit because it has been reset by a 3B’s tech-trap.
For example: GSKbe>W>BS>4KK>3B--> 3B(another) catches tech-rolls > reset > GSKbe catches Playing Dead > Wall Hit.

At last, you probably will ask me “How to do the reset without a catching a tech-rolls?” The answer is 'no a way'. All you can do is a second level of mix-ups. There are thousand of mix-ups you can do, but I prefer to do 2[K] and GSKbe most of time.
This mix-up is very fit in this Wall Hit situation because it can beat Stand Guard and GSKbe can beat Roll Body. No other mix-ups can do that. Unfortunately, I have to agree that GSKbe and 2[K] is not a True Mix-up. An experience nightmare player can see through the different and escape from it. Therefore, I recommend that the player could do a full fire GSKbe to mix with 2[K] that make opponent hard to see and escape from it. Or maybe you can do 2B+Kbe or Very Little Step Forward>2[K] or other useful fake to trick him.

Since 2[K] combo can not give you a Wall Combo instantly, you still need to play the tech-trap. The tech Trap and the second level of mix-up are showing below.
2[K]--> 44[B)(techNR)_GSB(techNL)_1A(techNL)_iFCThrow(tech)
_2[K](stand/dead)_GSKbe(dead>Wall Combo)
_3B(55)_Time2A+B(42)
Mix-up#1: _StepF>2[K](stand/dead)_Step>GSKbe(dead>Wall Combo)
Mix-up#2: _CE(roll)_4A+B(stand)
** If you did a 2[K] hit facing the wall, Instant2A+B>AT with 61 damage is guaranteed most of time.

After 44[B)(techNR) and GSB(techNL) is done, you can do these follow-ups to get a Wall Hit.
44[B)>techNR>NSSA+B--> GSKbe
GSB>techNL--> agA_[A]>NSSb:A

Remarks:
_ = or
GrHitSetup = Ground Hit Set Up.
AT = Attack Throw.
Time = Need a specific input Timing or delay.
StepF = Step Forward. (L=Left, R=Right, B=Back).
tech = Tech Trap works on every conditions.
techL = Tech Trap works on “Left” Tech-roll only.
techNL = Tech Trap does “Not” work “Left” Tech-roll.
(B=Back Tech-roll, F=Forward, D=Playing Dead) .
roll = Against to opponent rolls body on the ground.
ro = Ring Out.
W = leading to wall hit or close to a Wall.
FSHit = Front Side Hit. (L=Left, R=Right, B=Back) e.g. F/R/L/BSHit.
dead = Against to opponent plays dead.
--> = To list all combo follow ups.
> = a connector of a combo strings or an action strings.
( ) = attribute of a move or a combo follow up.
(#) = combo damage or tech-trap damage with combo starter.
(#+) = leading to other combo strings or tech-traps to make more damage.
ch = Counter Hit.
soul = 2A+B's AT ends the combo
charSpec = In character specific condition
**** = Notes & comments


All right! Done. If there are somethings repeat and grammar mistake, I'm sorry about that. Good luck, guys.

 

[Schneider-X]

So I found another 4A+B discovery. You ever notice how GS K BE will wallsplat with the opponent farther away than usual? This usually occurs when GS K BE wallsplats at an angle to the wall which results with 4KK whiffing on the opponent. 4A+B is guaranteed in this situation from my testing on Viola and Pyrrha.

I'll try to make a video and post it soon.

 

[Schneider-X]

Here is the video I made. Sorry for the background noise, I recorded it while setting up my capture station at a local tournament.

 

[Engared]

Here is the video I made. Sorry for the background noise, I recorded it while setting up my capture station at a local tournament.

That's crazy.

 

[Dansibabsi]

I dont know where to post this, but since someone posted something here recently, ill ask my question here : I just bought an Arcade stick and i wonder what the best/ most convienent settings are to play nightmare on it..
Anyone plz ^^ ? thanks a lot

 

[Schneider-X]

So I found you can adjust the angle GS K BE will wallsplat at after an agA.

It can't be rolled to either direction but can be JG'd with tight timing, unlike the far wallsplat that I talked about a few posts back. It's typically guaranteed if the opponent slides down and is a bit to the left of NM. As you can see in the video above, some characters like Viola, Hilde, and Ivy have specific angles which will cover certain or all side rolls.

 

[garjian]

I've been going through the combo thread for wall combos and I'm a little confused. WR (B) seems almost completely unnecessary, simply replace any instance of it with 4KK, 2A+B and it does slightly more damage.

Hell, FC B+G, G, 4KK, 4KK, 2A+B does 120 and costs no meter. I don't understand why you'd use anything else...

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

I've been going through the combo thread for wall combos and I'm a little confused. WR (B) seems almost completely unnecessary, simply replace any instance of it with 4KK, 2A+B and it does slightly more damage.

Hell, FC B+G, G, 4KK, 4KK, 2A+B does 120 and costs no meter. I don't understand why you'd use anything else...

Most of the time, the 2A+B attack throw doesn't work. When it does, it does just as much as the wr B combo, and less when it doesn't give you the AT, and that's only after certain wallsplats, like FCB+G. After, say, AGA or GS K BE, the WR B combo is in the 130 range where 4kk 2a+b is only in the 120 range.

Also, WR B gives MUCH better wakeup. WR B NSS A+B lets you get GS K BE, which, in addition to doing more damage than 4kk 2a+b, will resplat if the opponent ukemis. If they don't ukemi, which they shouldn't if they know the matchup, then you can end with 66b which is still more damage than 4kk 2a+b.

tl;dr WR B gives more damage, is more consistent, and gives much better oki options.

 

[ReflectIONz]

Very Good, It has improved my Nightmare experience

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

Just found a way to chain 1B into a combo. After 44A you can hit with 1B if the opponent not techrolled to left or right, is a good option I think, even if you miss you are not at disadvantage because you are to far away for a counter.
236K BE is a better option after 44A and is guaranteed, but it cost meter.

 

[MuffinMan123]

hey, can someone tell me how 66B works if comboed from NSS A+B? the combo list says it's a true combo, but the amount of hits I can get on the opponent is different if they decide to tech backward. it is inescapable, right?