Nightmare Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

Schneider-X

[11] Champion
From what I've tested, the best course of action for the opponent is to stand up and mash 9B/K if they see you charging up the 2K. Most, if not all, characters can jump over the 2[K] in time with standard jumping moves. If they look out for the stomp animation only, they'll be protected from 3B and GS K BE, and only susceptible to throws from the immediate mixup.

This of course opens them up to lau throws, but that's insignificant damaged compared to 3B or GS K BE, which isn't that good of a force block imo because both are unsafe on block. Of course you can use 4A+Bg to mixup your opponent, but you only gained that due to giving up free damage (guaranteed 82) to go for the first mixup.

Also, I've never been able to tech after the 66B relaunch, myself or the AI. Not sure if anyone else has had better luck than me.

Those are my thoughts on this, I feel the reward isn't worth it if the opponent knows to jump the stomp. If they don't, then as DIME said, go to town with it.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
From what I've tested, the best course of action for the opponent is to stand up and mash 9B/K if they see you charging up the 2K. Most, if not all, characters can jump over the 2[K] in time with standard jumping moves. If they look out for the stomp animation only, they'll be protected from 3B and GS K BE, and only susceptible to throws from the immediate mixup.

This of course opens them up to lau throws, but that's insignificant damaged compared to 3B or GS K BE, which isn't that good of a force block imo because both are unsafe on block. Of course you can use 4A+Bg to mixup your opponent, but you only gained that due to giving up free damage (guaranteed 82) to go for the first mixup.

Also, I've never been able to tech after the 66B relaunch, myself or the AI. Not sure if anyone else has had better luck than me.

Those are my thoughts on this, I feel the reward isn't worth it if the opponent knows to jump the stomp. If they don't, then as DIME said, go to town with it.
From my testing, the 4A+Bg cancel will fake out the opponent sufficiently to beat a read and reactor, the opponent simply does not have the time to react to looking for the stomp before he gets hit by the must-block. 3B hits immediately if he does not press G to stand up. 4A+Bg into 3B will CH and launch a jumping opponent so that will cool his jets significantly if he tries to be aggressive and attack/jump out of it.

I have been able to tech out of the relaunch easily btw. Just mash G and a direction pad and the character should tech.

But anyway its all theory atm as no one has tried it out in a serious match-up. I don't play this game anymore so I've not been able to test it out in an actual game against top class opponents. But from my testing it seems to work and should be NM's bread and butter whiff punish. Like NM should never use 33B to whiff punish if possible. 33B BE should be used always.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
I must be stupid then since I still can't tech after the 66B relaunch....

Let me check it out.

It seems to be quite character specific. Like i was getting weird things with Nightmare and he doesn't seem as if he is able to tech out of it. The amount of positive gained seems to be range dependent and character dependent too.

Tried it out on Lexia and it barely works because she drops so quickly its basically a one frame window of input. Frustrating.

Good news though, 2K is a mustblock lol. So 69 + 20 = 89 damage, which is not bad. You can set him up for a GI or CE or Step trap after the hit as well.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
If already posted feel free too delete. This is a character dependent combo and the timing varies on the characters it does work on. Anytime you land NSS b+k in a combo and you catch em w/ 66b tech trap you can combo off 66b w/ 2a+b in open ground w/o their back to edge. On mitsu, sieg, Cervantes, zwei, yoshi, Algol, apat, hilde, ivy, tira, viola. I believe this combo works on all against wall but it also works on these guys in open. To get the 66b launch you might have to delay input slightly some characters but works w/o it on some. Does 150+ damage and builds a ton of meter.
 

SilentWall

[10] Knight
Yo, long time no see.
I have not played the game for an half year. My hands are so itchy. I don't know if I can give some new idea for Nightmare or not. Let's me share some thought here to heal the itching. lol...

33Bbe(first+second hit) and 33Bbe(second hit only) are different. They will give you different Wake Up.
33Bbe(first+second hit)-> 66B(air hit)_Delay2A+B(landed>AT)
33Bbe(second hit only)-> 66B(ground hit)_2A+B(AT)

2[K] is not as good as the SC4 version, however, it is still useful only on RO, Wall combo and Wake Up Game with in a Forced Guard situation.
2[K]-> 3B(55)_Time2A+B(42) are the most reliable combos. 3B is better.
2[K]-> 44[B)(tech-roll L, RO)_GSB(tech-roll R, RO)_GSKbe(dead, RO)

Also, I think there is some important things we missed here.
33B6(close)->TurningBack-> GSKbe is a Back Side RO combo in SC5.

22K-> BigStepBack>1A(tech-traps for all) (Tech-roll JG doesn't count.) -_-

NSSK(ch)-> StrictedTime3B(66+, tech-traps for all, unreliable on some conditions.)

NSSA+B-> This TechTrap sucks in SC5 version (compare to SC4. Long story.) -_-
 

SilentWall

[10] Knight
Pemiciouis-Soul, don't worry. I believe no one posted it in details here.

NSSA+B->66B is so complicated in SC5. In SC4, basically 66B and StrictedTime33B are good enough to beat all side of Tech-rolls and play dead on every characters. All you need to do is to remember either one move (66B or StrictedTime33B) which can tech-trap all side of tech-rolls for which characters.
In SC5, just the 66B all side tech-traps has at least 3 different input timing for different character.

NSSA+B-> (All Side Tech-traps + dead trap)
-> Buffer66B works on Cerventes, Dampierre, Lexia, Mitsurugi, Natsu, Pyrrha, Omega, Xiba.
-> Delay66B(easy) works on Aeon, Algol, Ezio, Ivy, Patroklos, Rapheal, Tira, Viola.
-> StrictedTime66B(hard) works on Alpha, Astaroth, Nightmare, Siegfried, Voldo.
** 66B all side tech-trap does not work on Hilde, Maxi, Yoshimitsu and ZWEI.
** NSSA+B->66B is not even a combo on Yoshimitsu. -_-
It is very difficult to remember this and use it in tourney by reaction. If wrong timing happens, it will cause 66B whiffs or 66B being blocked (I got +2 advantage here still). IMO, NSSA+B->2A+B is the best and basic. However, if it leads to RO and Wall combo, it is still worth to try.

NSSA+B gives me headache. -_-
 

Engared

[10] Knight
Pemiciouis-Soul, don't worry. I believe no one posted it in details here.

NSSA+B->66B is so complicated in SC5. In SC4, basically 66B and StrictedTime33B are good enough to beat all side of Tech-rolls and play dead on every characters. All you need to do is to remember either one move (66B or StrictedTime33B) which can tech-trap all side of tech-rolls for which characters.
In SC5, just the 66B all side tech-traps has at least 3 different input timing for different character.

NSSA+B-> (All Side Tech-traps + dead trap)
-> Buffer66B works on Cerventes, Dampierre, Lexia, Mitsurugi, Natsu, Pyrrha, Omega, Xiba.
-> Delay66B(easy) works on Aeon, Algol, Ezio, Ivy, Patroklos, Rapheal, Tira, Viola.
-> StrictedTime66B(hard) works on Alpha, Astaroth, Nightmare, Siegfried, Voldo.
** 66B all side tech-trap does not work on Hilde, Maxi, Yoshimitsu and ZWEI.
** NSSA+B->66B is not even a combo on Yoshimitsu. -_-
It is very difficult to remember this and use it in tourney by reaction. If wrong timing happens, it will cause 66B whiffs or 66B being blocked (I got +2 advantage here still). IMO, NSSA+B->2A+B is the best and basic. However, if it leads to RO and Wall combo, it is still worth to try.

NSSA+B gives me headache. -_-
Yeah SC5 is extremely poorly coded. Very reminiscent of SC3 honestly.
 
What is the best damage option after 33B BE > 66B (air hit) ?
1K or 3K, I forget which. If what SilentWall said a few posts ago is true, then you can apparently get 2a+b, which I would assume would be maximum damage. I haven't tested it myself so I cant say for sure if it works.

You can also use Engared's 2(K)/3(B) mixup here to try and maximize the damage you can get.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
1K or 3K, I forget which. If what SilentWall said a few posts ago is true, then you can apparently get 2a+b, which I would assume would be maximum damage. I haven't tested it myself so I cant say for sure if it works.

You can also use Engared's 2(K)/3(B) mixup here to try and maximize the damage you can get.
Don't forget Lau throw. Its a good change-up with the standard 33B BE, 2B+K BE, 3B (which can be totally escaped if your opponent knows which way to tech).
 

Schneider-X

[11] Champion
I found out a reliable way to land 4A+B!

66K6 w! GS B iagA w! 4A+B (89+75 dmg)

The key is to either get an iagA or a agA that gives them a high wallsplat. You'll know you've got it right when you can connect 4KK after agA. The thing that makes this good imo is that the opponent cannot tech and its only rollable to NM's left. However if you guys remember the 6K > 4A+B dead trap, it is only rollable to NM's right. So you can play with your opponent a bit as its not always a given which way they should roll to escape it. I claim copyright over it haha.

I think the way you should read "33Bbe(first+second hit)-> 66B(air hit)_Delay2A+B(landed>AT)" is 66B air hit OR 2A+B. Someone should double check to make sure though.
Also wanted to give confirmation that the above is indeed supposed to be read as "66B air hit OR 2A+B"
 

SilentWall

[10] Knight
I'm happy to see the feedback. It seems this thread are going to be active again.
Yo, the reason I share new idea here because I want to claim the title of "I had plently of free time to test shit Nightmare". =)
And I'm going to be a casual player and hope you guys can get some useful information.

Yes, Schneider-X is right. _ = or
I just copy & paste from my strategy notes. lazy.

Ikl, DeathInMyEyes is right. However, 1K is the most guaranteed combo against to every characters after this 66B(air hit). Yea, very low damage.


Engared, SC3 is the worst in SC series. IMO, SC5 is fine, but I'm just unhappy about the roster and Namco's support.
By the way, Namco should make NSSA+B to have more variety and reliable mix-ups like 22K's tech-trap.

22K--> BigStepB>1A6(111+,tech&dead) _ 4Kbe:B(102,RO) _ StepF>2A+B(72,AT)
_ Time2B+Kbe(84+,tech&dead) _ Step>GSKbe(directionalRO) _ CE(roll) _ 4A+B(stand)
_ 1[A](forcedGuard)
And they need to fix the 22K's accidental whiff issue too. -_-

*** some of new idea is showing above can be applied to other Wake Up.
 

Schneider-X

[11] Champion
Tested this out myself, and I found that if you can keep Nightmare parallel to the wall so that the angle stays straight, then 4a+b is unrollable. Not even small hitboxes can roll it.
What angle does NM need to hit 66K at to remain parallel with the wall? Sorry, I don't have time to test it out myself right now :(
 
Errrr, he needs start parallel to end parallel. If you want an example, on the colosseum stage, if you set the stage to restart in front of the wall, you'll be at the perfect angle to make 4a+b unrollable.