Tiamat
[11] Champion
4A was pretty close to useless anyway (cue Engared to defend the virtues of 4A). Very easily duckable on reaction
Nightmare's Movelist Changes and Move Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Engared
- Start date
4A was pretty close to useless anyway (cue Engared to defend the virtues of 4A). Very easily duckable on reaction
Goofy
[10] Knight
My point was that a GB property was taken away from an iffy horizontal and added to just about the most useless vertical ever in a quick-step/CE punishing environment. I'd much rather discuss how Mare's CE works than plunge into some arbitrary argument over 4A's usefulness. Please, no.
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
But it was yummy post GI.
And yeah, unless it has mad tracking, aab GB is going to be just as useless as it was without the GB
And yeah, unless it has mad tracking, aab GB is going to be just as useless as it was without the GB
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Until you guess wrong and they don't re-GI, and then you get ducked on reaction and punished. Not worth the risk.
too late wahahahaha
microgamer
[10] Knight
From my understanding, you can't dictate what NM's CE does after you put in the input for it. It will either charge and then release the GB slash for ridiculous damage, or it will aGI if your opponent triggers it with an attack.
It will be really hard to intentionally land the fully charged version, unless, like someone mentioned earlier forget who, it's a NM mirror match, 1p NM goes for a CE, 2p anticipates, sidesteps and starts charging his CE for the whiff punish.
It will be really hard to intentionally land the fully charged version, unless, like someone mentioned earlier forget who, it's a NM mirror match, 1p NM goes for a CE, 2p anticipates, sidesteps and starts charging his CE for the whiff punish.
Goofy
[10] Knight
Oh. So all the talk of "omfg it does so much damage fully charged, derp" is just the standard CE. No canceling it short and droppin the hammer? Lol, kinda bummed w/ that because I agree, there's no way anyone's landing that in competitive play. They should up the damage on the aGi to compensate since that's basically it's only use >_>!
And now Mare mirrors will have a new layer of hilarity xD Can't wait to go bonkers on the CE mind games
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I'm not totally sure about that. I think I heard the developers talking about it at NEC they made it sound like you could release it earlier if you wanted.
i think the huge damage you see from the CE is because it was a counterhit on fully charged (not even aGI) CE. You'll have to be extremely lucky to get that, maybe if your opponent whiffs a very unsafe move ie: Mitsu 2KB while you are charging, then it's possible to get maximum damage.
Engared
[10] Knight
Erm i think AAB is NCC now...
And wow that is sick, it looks like it gives massive plus frames.
AA (B) GB.
Believe me Hteng, its not that difficult to get it. I got the fully charged CE 3 times in 7 matchs...
really?.. then i guess those people eating a full charged CE in the face really deserved so lol, i have a hard time imagining this would happen as often at high level play, cept for the NM mirror matches mentioned above.
Engared
[10] Knight
I think its very possible as a whiff punish. For example, remember the old 1K NH B+K NSS A+B whiff punish? Well Nightmare's 1K on tip seems to have a slightly longer hit-box than in SC4. What I did was 1K NH into CE trying to get bait him to proc the GI. Well guess what? My opponent did LX's 6B and it whiffed...
Or for example someone does a string of which you think that you will be slightly out of range of the final hit, the CE will punish that string with either the GI version if you guess wrongly or the full damage version if you are correct.
It has many applicable uses. I can see the CE as a punish for anything which has a very long recovery time on whiff and that list is a very long one.
Goofy
[10] Knight
I don't know whether you really enjoy playing devil's advocate or that you refuse to wrap your head around a competitive-level mindset but come on man >_>...Was the lack of NCC really holding you back from using such an amazing string? Please, enough with the derpishly optimistic lens. AAB is a borderline useless string on its own and adding a GB property to the last hit which is a vertical is beyond arbitrary, no matter how many frames it gives on block because guess what? No competent opponent is going to be hit by it.
Again I must stress that the majority of us judge Mare through the lens of a high-level, competitive environment. Gimmicky stuff like that just won't fly, people aren't going to throw out random strings only to get punished by his CE. If his CE somehow manages to take precedence as a whiff punish option over 33B (BE) then something is very wrong >_>
On that note, can we please clear up how Mare's CE actually works. Kinda funny that we've had plenty of demo testers but still can't come to a conclusive agreement. If it turns out that his CE is just a 3 second aGi window that goes boom at the end if the aGi doesn't get triggered then we should probably drop the "charging" terminology. It's very misleading :(
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Goofy: Yeah we need to get that cleared up. I still think you can release it anytime after the auto GI window ends but I may be wrong.
Engared: The people you played are not used to fighting SC5 Nightmare yet so they are getting hit by stupid crap.
Engared: The people you played are not used to fighting SC5 Nightmare yet so they are getting hit by stupid crap.
Paragon049
[10] Knight
I thought I saw it during the stream, and I had to confirm with the recording later. 44B/(B) (SC4 1B) stuns on NH and guarantees NSS A+B. @0:02:05
http://www.twitch.tv/iplaywinner/b/304956439
http://www.twitch.tv/iplaywinner/b/304956439
KingAce
HERMITISM
I like this Goofy guy. A lot of blind optimism in this thread. Pinpointing the positives and ignoring the negatives is very misleading to people reading these threads.
From iplaywinner's stream it appears that they reverted back NSS bA's ringout/wallsplat range. To me it appears to send them flying further than it was in some earlier builds.
From iplaywinner's stream it appears that they reverted back NSS bA's ringout/wallsplat range. To me it appears to send them flying further than it was in some earlier builds.
Engared
[10] Knight
Of course but the guys whom i was playing with were very competitive world class players. I don't believe its that difficult to do hit with because of the whiff punish nature of this game. I love how all the negative nancies are the people who haven't played the game yet. Rofl.
@kingace- and ignoring the positives are also sending a false message.
Nightmare still possibly has some major weaknesses such as safety and linearity (yeah i said it, linearity) and the lost of step cancel agA is a big big nerf but he's got some huge buffs.
His old weaknesses of: damage (yeah any decent Nightmare player will agree about this in SC4) and counter hit damage in particular have been significantly improved. His ability to deal with tech crouch and AA pressure also has been significantly buffed due to improved A+B, the CE, improved backstep, possibly improved avoidance frames on B+K, possibly improved 66K, improved FC 3B, etc.
The jury is still out on whether he has that fast scary mid which he always lacked. I believe that he does not need it due to the spacing nature of this game and with the introduction of possibly safe mids (3AA, 22B, GS B) and the potential to make previously unsafe mids safe with meter makes up for this. And the introduction of new powerful lows and a safer 1A only adds to his mix-up game. And 1A6 is going to be a very strong whiff punisher.
@Goofy- I think up of applications or possible applications for every single move in the game. I mean you sound like the type of dude who looked at Nightmare's frames at the beginning of SC4 and went "Damn he's shit". We know how that turned out.
In SC4, AAB was garbage. There was no use for it at all. Until Silentwall found that it can be used as a whiff bait at medium range...
But if AAB is a NCC in SC5, it suddenly becomes useful. Let me break it down. Firstly, can be done with simple input and seems to kill step (at least to one side). Secondly, its range is pretty long so as such has priority over some moves at certain distances in the spacing game as such you can beat opponents moves with AAB and catch them in counter hit. Thirdly, it does a lot of damage for a three hit string. And if AA (B) on block gives positive frames, it can be a "switch-em-up mix-up" which catches your opponent off guard. And anything which is plus 3 to 6 on block is useful.
page
[11] Champion
And I don't know how you could be so negative anyway. He was fucking awful in sc3 and playable in sc4. How does this trend work? It's not like you're harking back to some golden age in the past when Nightmare was hot shit and how could Project Soul do this to him? He started bad and got better.
Engared
[10] Knight
It looks like it breaks guard pretty quickly. I'm estimating 8-10.
ioKain
[09] Warrior
Quote from Hates Hands on article...
"Damage on moves like 2A, 2K, and other minor pokes seems greatly reduced and most AA and BB attacks are also underwhelming, damage-wise, rendering them useful primarily in checking an opponent"
I'm really looking forward to some A+B mind games.
"Damage on moves like 2A, 2K, and other minor pokes seems greatly reduced and most AA and BB attacks are also underwhelming, damage-wise, rendering them useful primarily in checking an opponent"
I'm really looking forward to some A+B mind games.