Official Ban Discussion Thread

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I see what you mean neo. But Algol does pack a punch, but I think you forgot to mention that he can't setp for shit. so if you run up to him you can basically beat him out, and put him on the wrong of the ball. If you know what I mean. And scrubs will compalin about anything from shujinko in MKD having too many cobmos, Ryu,ken, and chun being too good, and etc. So a scrub is a scrub. They would bitch about anything. So they should ban the appr to, right? 'Cause scrub think he's cheap also. And so what Algo lsi annoying to fight? I fought matic Algol. It not that hard to approach as you stated neo. But I'll say this for Algol. If you fight a good Algol your going to get rape if you can't stop his long and short range game from happening.
 
neorussell said:
Cha Cha: BooYah!!!
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What is that in referrence to? Why do you guys get offended by generalized statements? pretty funny...

Look, Algol IS hard to deal with, I learned him and learned to get around a lot of his set ups, but the fact remains that he is STILL a good character after the gimmicks. BUT I haven't seen anything from him to warrant a ban. His combo damage scales really bad, he has some good straight damage and ring outs...but so does half the cast.
All we need is for Toronto's Algols to come to a tourney, destroy all competition, get it on tape and throw it up. It will add a lot of weight to your argument, because everyone only has themself and the players around them to judge something...maybe your players found more broke shit than mine, it's a good possibility.

But for now it's just a possibility. He's a good character, maybe even great. But what is BROKEN about him? Is it 33B? Is it the bubble set ups? I just don't see it.

Vints or Russ, play me online and show me at least in theory what you think will make him a degenerate character even if studied by the community.

cha cha
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
What is that in referrence to? Why do you guys get offended by generalized statements? pretty funny...

Look, Algol IS hard to deal with, I learned him and learned to get around a lot of his set ups, but the fact remains that he is STILL a good character after the gimmicks. BUT I haven't seen anything from him to warrant a ban. His combo damage scales really bad, he has some good straight damage and ring outs...but so does half the cast.
All we need is for Toronto's Algols to come to a tourney, destroy all competition, get it on tape and throw it up. It will add a lot of weight to your argument, because everyone only has themself and the players around them to judge something...maybe your players found more broke shit than mine, it's a good possibility.

But for now it's just a possibility. He's a good character, maybe even great. But what is BROKEN about him? Is it 33B? Is it the bubble set ups? I just don't see it.

Vints or Russ, play me online and show me at least in theory what you think will make him a degenerate character even if studied by the community.

cha cha
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Why don't you fight me cha? I think I could show more light on the problem. And is it ok to go the this chicago trouney I'm going, and own with Algol? And I think it all because they don't want a challenge if you ask me. He's going to use the bubbles, and it up to you to find out how to get around just like cha stated on how he got around it.
 
I'll put it this way:

When you can convince me that Algol is better than the sisters, X, Yoshi, and Amy....then I would consider saying he needs a ban.

Good luck with that.
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
What is that in referrence to? Why do you guys get offended by generalized statements? pretty funny...

Look, Algol IS hard to deal with, I learned him and learned to get around a lot of his set ups, but the fact remains that he is STILL a good character after the gimmicks. BUT I haven't seen anything from him to warrant a ban. His combo damage scales really bad, he has some good straight damage and ring outs...but so does half the cast.
All we need is for Toronto's Algols to come to a tourney, destroy all competition, get it on tape and throw it up. It will add a lot of weight to your argument, because everyone only has themself and the players around them to judge something...maybe your players found more broke shit than mine, it's a good possibility.

But for now it's just a possibility. He's a good character, maybe even great. But what is BROKEN about him? Is it 33B? Is it the bubble set ups? I just don't see it.

Vints or Russ, play me online and show me at least in theory what you think will make him a degenerate character even if studied by the community.

cha cha
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Cha: BooYah!! was me saying hi. LOL

Regarding Sailor Mercury, In my opinion he does not belong with the cast. I mean Soul Calibur is a weapon based fighting game and this guy is throwing projectiles like no tomorrow. Granted that after fighting him a few times, there is a way around it. My issue remains as him having those projectiles. If there was a gauge for him to deplete everytime he does that then why not. Of course somebody might reference abyss but keep in mind that it took 20 mins for his fireball to come out.

My decision stand with the voting happening right now. You guys have experience and that will get you around Algol's tricks but more or less, i want matches to be enjoyable not time consuming or relentless keep away.

Better yet, if you can show me an Algol that does not rely on relentless projectiles then we have no problem. But from what i hear, he needs that to win.

NeoRussell
 
Algol to me looks like a piss poor way of adding akuma into the game and Namco was like "some umm what weapon shall we give him?" But yeah although he looks all bad ass and what not I fine Algol in general to be slow and easy to read. Even with all his "bubbles" I still don't see the problem. For christ sake you can send his buddy's back to him. I just wish you could use his armor on a CaS.......that would be epic.

Until I see a video of someone doing something wild with Algol I'll just laugh as I did when people were claiming The Apprentice was High Tier/OP.
 
neorussell said:
In all honesty, Algol with his Mercury Bubbles is irritating. Especially if you are playing
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Hey Sophitia was irritating in SC3, and she still is in SC4.

I still fail to see any good argument for banning him. All I hear are lame excuses. Sorry Namco actually decided to be creative with one of the new characters!
 
So, if I can sum up all of the crap people say about him. It this...

ZOMG those bubbles are sooooo cheap!!! Y did Namco make such a broken chaarcter. His combos 2 much dmg!!!! All of his moves are safe!!!!!!!!!!!1

So does that sum up pretty much people will say on banning him?
 
neorussell said:
Cha: BooYah!! was me saying hi. LOL

Regarding Sailor Mercury, In my opinion he does not belong with the cast. I mean Soul Calibur is a weapon based fighting game and this guy is throwing projectiles like no tomorrow. Granted that after fighting him a few times, there is a way around it. My issue remains as him having those projectiles. If there was a gauge for him to deplete everytime he does that then why not. Of course somebody might reference abyss but keep in mind that it took 20 mins for his fireball to come out.

My decision stand with the voting happening right now. You guys have experience and that will get you around Algol's tricks but more or less, i want matches to be enjoyable not time consuming or relentless keep away.

Better yet, if you can show me an Algol that does not rely on relentless projectiles then we have no problem. But from what i hear, he needs that to win.

NeoRussell
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It isnt really for you to decide if you think he 'Belongs' in the game or not. Namco has put him in the game. He is currently part of the cast, and even has his own square on the character select screen. Also, just because you think the game shouldent have projectiles, dosent make it so. Once again, its namcos choice what to put in their game, and we as players get to decide if we like that game or not.

The reson we ban characters is to promote the quality of the game, that is to say, to keep the game running as the developers intended it to run (more or less). However if we start banning things that dont need to be banned, but things we want to be banned, where do we draw the line.

i really do think its about more than that for people that call for the ban though. i think that the people calling for the ban know in their hearts that Algol isnt too good, they just want the ban because they dont like him, or that they dont do well versus him. If Algol was horrible, but still had his projectiles, would he still be ban worthy? After all, if it was simply about projectiles, Cervantes has one. Ivys sword can function very close to a projectile. The apprentice has multiple projectiles. i havent heard any bans called on any of them, so the issue CANT be about projectiles.
 
I'm sorry about all the crap I have cause you shenou. Anyway, it look like were winning. And I highly doubt they would ban thsi man in the first place. And you can't ban a chaarcter just because you don't like him. I hate ash, mitsu, Amy, shpioe, and Maxi, but I don't think they should be ban. You guys see now?
 
For what it's worth, I think Algol should be allowed in tournaments unless there is a good, valid reason to ban him; innocent until proven guilty so to speak.
 
BLDave said:
It isnt really for you to decide if you think he 'Belongs' in the game or not. Namco has put him in the game.
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Russell's not actually deciding anything for the community, just saying he personally feels that Algol is out of place. It's an honest point and I actually agree with it. Basically, I think if the community agrees Algol is too different for Soulcalibur fighting, then they should be entitled to that opinion. We don't only have to make tournament rules based on what is felt the developer intended the game to be, do we?


Tiamat: Are you sure you mean creative? Algol is so much like Akuma. :p
 
vints: he's still a groundbreaking character for a 3D fighting game I think. I think he was very well done
 
Vincent said:
Russell's not actually deciding anything for the community, just saying he personally feels that Algol is out of place. It's an honest point and I actually agree with it. Basically, I think if the community agrees Algol is too different for Soulcalibur fighting, then they should be entitled to that opinion. We don't only have to make tournament rules based on what is felt the developer intended the game to be, do we?


Tiamat: Are you sure you mean creative? Algol is so much like Akuma. :p
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Thinking he is out of place is one thing, but wanting to call a ban on him for it is quite another. What about the apprentice? It doesn't get much more out of place, why no ban there?

Without his bubbles, Algol has a pretty standard moveset, not any more shocking or original than yoshi or voldo

Also, things don't get banned for prefferance, they get banned because they need to be to promote balance. Can anyone tell me of any fighting game in the past where a character has been banned because he didn't fit in or was unliked and not because he was game breaking? I'm not sure if it's ever happened or not
 
BLDave said:
Can anyone tell me of any fighting game in the past where a character has been banned because he didn't fit in or was unliked and not because he was game breaking? I'm not sure if it's ever happened or not
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Yes, tournament rules vary for the same game from country to country. In SC3, Hwang was banned in France just because he was a bonus character. Then there's Japan, they still play single elmination. See where I'm going? Promoting the game is a relative thing. You don't have to bend over backwards to appeal to more people, especially if the majority of players running the community don't want it.
 
Thus the use of this Discussion/Page/Guide.
So that there's a voice apart from "the target audience" of the tournament and the tournament organizers.

Thanks for the feedback thus far, other thread updated accordingly.
 
I think he's an okay character. Ya, the bubbles are annoying, but not hard to dodge if ya keep your head. His combos are long and irritating, but they generally do smidges of damage per hit so they aren't too overpowered imo. He's got strange moves, but is far from unbeatable. I think as people fight him more and more they'll realize what to expect from this very strange, seemingly out of place character.
 
I don't really buy the notion that bubbles have small hit boxes.

Maybe if all you're doing is guarding or stepping but the moment you try to do an attack they will interrupt you if you're anywhere near them.

And speaking of being anywhere near them, it's stupidly hard to tell exactly where they are. I've stepped to the side of slow bubbles several times only to get hit when I move forward. I find it very hard to judge their depth.

I'm not really qualified to say he's overpowered but I haven't seen any argument against banning him that seems to take his bubbles seriously. Mostly it's just people making veiled or direct insults against anyone who thinks they're stupid.
 
About Algol...don't ban.

The only characters I'd ban from tournaments are Cassandra and Sophitia and possibly Lizardman because the model and hitboxes are total crap and the character is basically unhittable if piloted correctly. There are serious hitbox issues with Kilik and Seung Mina but NOTHING like the invincible sisters.
 
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