Official Natsu 1.02 Patch Changes Discussion

TaXi said:
i kind of regret not researching more and making more noise about the weird hit issues for ivy and the rest, especially if it doesn't get addressed in this patch.
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@Taxi not too late yet if you can get heard about these things actually. I mean if you can actually get up there and bundle up people like Hawkeye, Tha_Shogun etc and talk to Namco about a compromise on how to have her "balanced" but not flogged to death with a golf club that has NERF painted on it with yellow paint, I damn right think you should. 2 days until release, a lot can be done.
If they do not listen to their top players they might as well dig their own grave.
 
So if poison darts doesn't stun......What is the point of the move? It requires close range and performing the move on an ungrounded opponent is risky. The damage sucks compared to 44k and 1A as finishers and the bombs at least give the opportunity of an air throw or CE.

So what's the point of poison darts now?
 
@Song ^ You're too optimistic.
This patch was mostly likely made atleast a month in advance and its finalized.
 
Tha_Shogun said:
Well from what it seems, 6 A+B combo on run counter and counter hit will not be able to lead to stun combo, but will only lead to stun combo if the second hit connects only (just like on SC4 with Taki's 3bK). Goodluck trying to get the second hit to connect only, I've only done it once the whole time I played SC4. We should still have the natural combo of 6 A+B PO A:6 so on counter hit it might do alittle bit more damage. Oh wait......no it won't.....CAUSE PO A:6 IS REDUCED DAMAGE!
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I'm not sure if anyone is on the same page with this. I guess we will have to wait and see
 
About FC 2 A+B: We'll have to see if it gives good further wakeup options, depending how much advantage it gives and what range you are in after ground hit.
It's also still safe on block, which makes it more usable than in IV where it was -15.
It also still stuns on CH.
Taking away ground stun from FC 2A+B is probably the worst. But we'll have to see if the stun is completely gone or just in some situations, like in a combo.
What worries the most is that with 4B, FC 2A+B, 1A, her best throw/high whiff punisher will probably be gone.

6A+B will probably be like SC IV 3bK meaning it will still work in combos, but doesn't start a combo on CH except on tip range.
This will probably stop me from overusing this unsafe move in the wrong situations.
Another example of Namco giving me what i need and not what i want.

WS K on block is now at -6 so if they don't make it -10 it may still be safe.

This patch sounds really bad, but i think we have to see how it works out and we will find ways around this, or just bomb all day.
 
Am I the only one that thinks despite Natsu specific nerfs that she is going to be a bit better in general since out spacing her is going to be a bit more difficult now since BackStepG is gone?? This is actually HUGE for her. Yeah, I understand that she got destroyed when it comes to CH fishing with WRk... BUT they didn't make 22k unsafe. It's high and all but that just gives the opponent more of an incentive to random duck now.

Okay... a+b got killed we still have normal a:6 that spikes and does roughly the same damage. I know we are going to have scaling issues since it's 3 hits instead of a+b's 1 hit but we aren't completely fucked there.

Darts can still be used as a tech trap at the wall since nothing was mentioned about it losing it's +10 on normal hit. MAYBE dart dart will ukime trap left and right for a +10 giving us a free a:6 or an aa for those of you that can't get a:6 down.

The CH stun on 22k was a good deal longer than the CH stun on WRk, so I'm guessing they just reduced the stun to be the same as WRk's. That also means 22ka will likely spike differently, which isn't soo soo bad.

We can still CH fish with 4b into 3kkk. :)

We can still CH fish with WRb now instead of WRk.

Song-of-Silence shouldn't play patchable games since he just seems to want to play high tier characters. Have some loyalty, sir.

HOV b still stuns on the ground (since most people are going to want to lay anyway)

I'm optimistic and I definitely won't drop Natsu. I REALLY REALLY want EXC and tEXC back, I also want baPO abbPO back but but but... You can't always get what you want!
 
Galen said:
Am I the only one that thinks despite Natsu specific nerfs that she is going to be a bit better in general since out spacing her is going to be a bit more difficult now since BackStepG is gone?? This is actually HUGE for her. Yeah, I understand that she got destroyed when it comes to CH fishing with WRk... BUT they didn't make 22k unsafe. It's high and all but that just gives the opponent more of an incentive to random duck now.

Okay... a+b got killed we still have normal a:6 that spikes and does roughly the same damage. I know we are going to have scaling issues since it's 3 hits instead of a+b's 1 hit but we aren't completely fucked there.

Darts can still be used as a tech trap at the wall since nothing was mentioned about it losing it's +10 on normal hit. MAYBE dart dart will ukime trap left and right for a +10 giving us a free a:6 or an aa for those of you that can't get a:6 down.

The CH stun on 22k was a good deal longer than the CH stun on WRk, so I'm guessing they just reduced the stun to be the same as WRk's. That also means 22ka will likely spike differently, which isn't soo soo bad.

We can still CH fish with 4b into 3kkk. :)

We can still CH fish with WRb now instead of WRk.

Song-of-Silence shouldn't play patchable games since he just seems to want to play high tier characters. Have some loyalty, sir.

HOV b still stuns on the ground (since most people are going to want to lay anyway)

I'm optimistic and I definitely won't drop Natsu. I REALLY REALLY want EXC and tEXC back, I also want baPO abbPO back but but but... You can't always get what you want!
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you are right that the nerfing of backdash helps natsu... i really hate backdash in the current version.

just a few other comments:
  • with regards to 4B, i'd almost always rather be using AAB, or WS K if i'm in a crouch state.
  • CH WS B fishing is a good idea, but i think it's more viable on wakeup than by itself. from a neutral state i think CH WS K is still much more effective, be it in terms of speed, range or dmg.
  • A:6 is used in a much different manner than A+B; A+B works against opponents who backdash/step badly, as a jump move or as a whiff punisher. A:6 should be used as a punisher and when you've cornered your opponent at the wall/ring edge.
 
pretty sure galen was talking about the use of A+B in combos, not raw.

like everyone else, i'm only really upset at the FC A+B change.

i see alot of ways her nerfing could have gone and changing that move was the worst option.

reduce the damage on 44KKK, FC A+B, and last hit of 33KKK. FC A+B is used as an oki tool and if they even halved its damage i'd still be happy if it functioned the same. get a little bit of damage or go for a tech trap. 3KKK, the last hit was mainly used for combos, as it was unsafe and not NCC, half its damage as well. same thing with 44KKK, not really used outside of combos, so cut the damage and we got from getting 140 damage combos to getting like 90-100 damage combos. itd be a fair change imo, since the damage was what people were mainly complaining about. but instead we get a terrible change to how a move actually functions, which kind of makes 44KKK useless as well, and in addition to that they take one of her best punishes (6A+B4 PO A:6) and nerf its damage because its part of the combo string.

my offense is going to be built around 66B now, that shit will cut through MANY moves at slight disadvantage. great for forcing the opponent into a particular response.
 
ah ok. juggle-wise my only gripe with A:6 is when it whiffs after 22B at mid/far-range.

kAb: it's also safe on many characters. in the ultimate scenario where nothing else works for natsu, 66B will pretty much be the only thing that keeps her alive. i guess namco will have to deal with 66B spammage... but i assume they expected that when they came up with the patch.
 
non-natsu players providing useful input in the natsu SA: too many to count.

please give some credit to all the natsu players here who are trying to think of ways to deal with the patch.
 
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HAHAH! KAB. I sent you my number cause I was on the road. My phone wouldn't allow me to type in the message box so I just put a smiley! LOL Shoot me a call or a text when you get that
 
Spent a couple hours playing with some of my crew and unlearning come Natsu setups. My current feelings are that she is still going to High Mid tier. The scrubs are still going to lose to jack random Natsus. However, playing Natsu at a high level wont be effected by the nerfs. In some cases since I wasn't fishing for CH with WS K or 6A+B I managed to improve on my pokes/footies.

I guess the dart setups were fun, but not critical to her overall game plan.

Even after the patch Natsu will still be an excellent whiff punisher with things like A+B an 66B as well as bomb setups.

I also started to refocus my training on playing her sort of like a mini Sophie. A:6 is just an amazing move that punishes things that seem impossible at times. I know I have said this before, but start learning what you can punish with A:6.

So yah the nerf not so bad and big picture wise it will not effect her Tier placement.

laters,
philip
 
mkl said:
Scrub killing tools: 1
Actual advanced Natsu players: 0.
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Your comment might be just for fun but I don't get this line of thinking.

If we think about this logically......

What's happening with the patch notes is that all the moves that link into CH combos are getting nerfed essentially. This is going to create more brain dead play with Natsu.

Rather than fishing for the big CH combo most fights and pokes here and there with bomb pressure, you do realize that it's going to make Natsu more scrub-reliant, focusing more on 66B spam and shorter (less button inputs) combos, if any at all. It might be tougher to kill an opponent now because she has less options, but the actual gameplay itself for Natsu becomes dumbed down.

Kind of like Nerfing a character down to only having 3 moves. Sure, it might be tougher to kill people with that character than previously, but it just makes the character more retard friendly.

Natsu's nerf is not to the extremes of my example, but shorter combos, less dmg on combos, one move removed ENTIRELY from all combo chains (that links quite a few together and is now useless) and potential for less CH combo starters (a lot of opening stuns have had some sort of modification nerf, right now it's unclear which ones do and don't work) = dumbed down character.

That as far as I'm aware has very few normal combos outside of CH combos.

I'll still play Natsu and adjust. I've spent enough time that even if I don't keep her as a main she's a strong character I can play with whenever I feel like it, but in all honesty the part that did get nerfed from Natsu was the most complex part of Natsus gameplay (stringing combos together through CHs rather than whiff punish spam and bomb spam, as if we don't have enough characters based on that).

If the bombs got nerfed and a few other things I'd agree it would be scrub deterrent, since then most Natsus would have to spend the time to learn all her combo options and practicing them. But it was more the reverse.
 
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