Official Natsu 1.02 Patch Changes Discussion

ghost333

[09] Warrior
- 6A+B4 PO A:6 deals 38 dmg
6A+B4 PO K deals also 38 dmg...
CH 6A+B4(first hit wiffs) goes to the full damage combo we know.


- CH 22_K can only combo to the A follow up , the only alternative is to cancel it to PO and go for a dash /DC /PO mix-up

- A+B , 1A doesnt work
WC AAA , 1A doesnt work either

- CH WS K, leads to CH 6A+B4 >combo we know
same with hover B , we get the full combo again.

Hmn seems like we will have to work more with other moves and a lot of throws.

as of now we need to find some work arounds:

k2 seems intersting i use it a bit.
6A+B4 >mixup (the BE is a must)
3KK WR/DB> mixup.
a lot of throws.
2bA > iWS K/8K,A/throw
4A
4KK/4K,6A+B4
22_A/B/K
 

UnseenWombat

[14] Master
Well, it's depressing, but it's good to know. I'd say 4A pretty much requires the PO BE as well, since everyone tries to attack you out of PO. I guess you could go for PO A:6 though.

Maybe the best followup for A+B is 4A+B6. Then you at least have PO mixups. It's a shame you can't combo anything off of it now though.
 

Protoman

[09] Warrior
Well, it's depressing, but it's good to know. I'd say 4A pretty much requires the PO BE as well, since everyone tries to attack you out of PO. I guess you could go for PO A:6 though.

Maybe the best followup for A+B is 4A+B6. Then you at least have PO mixups. It's a shame you can't combo anything off of it now though.

I rarely use 4A unless its to end a round.
Or I accidentally get it when I 1A. Usually works out though. lol


I hate to be a bother but can anyone check if 11_77K launches a decent height? And if BT A+B was left untouched? I use it quite a bit nowadays.
Sorry if its been noted and I missed the post.
 

TaXi

[09] Warrior
thanks to ghost333 for the info. i think 3KK and 6A+B mixups will be more commonplace post-patch. and it seems to be more worthwhile to go into PO mixups after 6A+B on hit rather than get the guaranteed PO A:6 (on some characters), so that means 66B/throw mixups and guard dmg game (hello PO B!) will be key again. A+B won't be too useful unless there's some new tech trap on hit; i think 66B and iWS K will be much of natsu's mid-range game.

moving on... 66B is going to be a key move for natsu, so we should do more testing on it. based on my testing, only pyrrha, omega, cervy and leixia's CEs will always land after 66B on block regardless of PO options.
 

Gatexor

[08] Mercenary
Idk how you plan to do any mixups from 6A+B4...,like, literally everyone mashes buttons as hard as they can, once the PO transition starts. Even complete scrubs =( . I don't think the PO BE threat will make anyone respect your 6A+B4.
 

UnseenWombat

[14] Master
As long as they don't mash anything faster than i14 you have PO A to interrupt. That limits most characters to AA. I disagree about the BE though. I think if people start getting hit by a 68 damage unbreakable throw they might start respecting PO.
 

OkamiBW

[08] Mercenary
I too am curious if 11_77K, 66bA+B+K hits or not.

From 6A+B4, just force them to think more and punish them with your PO BE K a couple times. Then you can start doing tricky stuff like PO B+K (low), CH PO A:6, PO B, and PO A+B depending on the situation. Though, I feel like I'm gonna use PO B+K, PO B, and PO BE most. They're quick enough to keep your opponent guessing and confused.
 

Shemy

[08] Mercenary
11_77k, 66B BE, 1A/44k still works. 11_77k, A:6, 1A/44k too

11_77k, A+B doesn't.

Interestingly, you can 11_77k, B[K]4 if you want a PO mixup. 47 damage from that.

BT A+B, A+B, 1A/44K works. I'm testing it on Nightmare
 

frost

[08] Mercenary
Just throwing it out there. There are certain moves that option select against PO attack and PO BE options by moving them too far (or airborne) for the BT PO K to connect as an AT. I have yet to play post-patch, but Algol's 3B BE was one of them. Also, the old SC2 mainstay of 2A (from applicable characters) allows them to counter everything except PO K and still have time to block the incoming BT PO K. We still have options, but it's worth it to be mindful of this.

Looks like it's back to the lab for me with this patch. I'm very interested in seeing how I fare against everyone else, who got retouched as well.
 

ghost333

[09] Warrior
i was talking about 6A+B4 on HIT
sorry forgot to mention that.... ^_^;

11_K launches quite well, u can conect almost anything after it.
some tests:
11_K :
A:6 43dmg
6A+B4 (mixup) 32dmg
4A+B6 (mixup) 33dmg
6K,A 38dmg (some times u can connect a 6B to reach 51dmg but inconsistent)
66B BE, 1A 82dmg

EDIT:
the more i look into the command list the more i find it hard to combine setups... the 6A series cant even be used to combos/mixups on the other hand the stalker/DB?WR seems intersting the stalker seems to evade a lot of things
 

Protoman

[09] Warrior
Worst case scenario I decided on a secondary.
Not that I'm going to be able to adapt that fast.

@Ghost: The 6A series is actually kinda good.
@Shemy: Thank you. <3
 

Crysack

[09] Warrior
Yeah, I think I'll find a new secondary character to complement Hilde. Aside from the fact that this new iteration of Natsu is just not fun to play, none of these setups are particularly reliable, nor do they lead to particularly amazing damage. I'm finding it difficult to justify using Natsu over other characters who just do the whole mix-up and/or punishment thing much better.

All they really need to do is add the ground stun back in and I'd be (relatively) happy. Taking it out just removes a lot of the dynamism from Natsu's play.
 

Boogieman

[09] Warrior
Alright , I'm a drop some knowledge on you. This was first mentioned in the New Finds thread but I think it is worth mentioning seeings how FC 2A+B is not worth using to link a combo.

Hawkeye, showed me this and stated "sometimes it is better to go for the guaranteed dmg" well since we don't have the guaranteed dmg anymore thanks to the nerfing of FC A+B we all should be using this come tomorrow (practice tonight) if this all is applicable once the patch hits everywhere.

iWS K 6A+B4 A:6 2A 66A+B = 125 dmg as it is.

if they start ducking/breaking grab you alternate the grab with 66bA+B+K

iWS K 6A+B4 A:6 2A 66bA+B+K = 135 dmg

This is should be the standard replacement for what we all have been using with FC 2A+B

Also , we should push forward to make Natsu more of a Mixup character after this patch.

And if we are taking chances on making people guess wrong I'm also pushing to use

CH 4B 6B 66B+G = 102 dmg (VS) CH 4B 3KKK 1A = 77 dmg

definitely everyone needs to learn to space better, play safer ABUSE 66B

I've been using 66B since SC2 like this (although it's slightly different since then)

it allows for alot of wake up game. 66B BAM you run up on top of them, a lot of people get up ducking cause they think you'll grab so there goes another 66B you land. And if the chance of clean hit 66B can dish out some SERIOUS dmg.

I can't stress enough how good 3K/3KK/3KK WindRoll etc is. I learned a VERY hard lesson from kAb , he showed me how great this move is. it's retarded and makes/forces people to stay locked down.

I can assure this patch just takes away one big fancy combo to be honest. This patch fixed a lot of things with her. I agree the poison dart was a slap in the face to us but still we can live without no problem.

enjoy it starting tomorrow , I know I will. I think this patch will force Natsu players to PLAY better/smarter. People will still be screaming she's broke way after this patch. BELIEB!!!!
 

SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe

Red Lotus
I take back what I said earlier about Natsu still being fine.
Comparatively, she's worse off than anybody in the cast anymore.
She doesn't have combos and she doesn't do damage and she has no safe punish for a lot of things.
I find it amusing how Siegfried didn't get one bit weaker but they took away Natsu's damage to deal with him. I also find it amusing how - in order to balance her - they gave Viola the same amount of damage that Natsu had pre-patch but she also has range to go with it.
Balance, eh?
Somebody plz help, does Natsu have ANYTHING going for her or is she just down the outhouse chute?