Opinion: Where Do Fighting Games Go From Here?

BlackDragon37

BlackDragon37

[12] Conqueror
In this personal opinion piece, Japan-based journalist Nayan Ramachandran considers Capcom's challenges with making Street Fighter IV more approachable for casual gamers, and why fighting game enthusiasts often reject those accessibility efforts.

Thoughts and feelings on this article and in general?
 
Huh? This is under the assumption that SF4 is the end-all-be-all of fighting games. As well, I don't feel that SF4 is accessable to beginners based on the controls... I still cant understand why things like LK,LK,LK are just frames. To me, SF4 is accessable because of the flashiness; flashiness is enough to overcome a new players troubles with the engine and controls. If you ask me, Virtua Fighter 5 (no VF game before it) is extremely accessable to beginners based on controls; it has a large buffer system and doesn't rely heavily on just-frames early on. However; it doesn't have the "flash" that other games have. Because of this, people aren't willing to give it a chance.

The most noob-friendly game I've seen so far in Soulcalibur 2. It has an extremely long buffer window AND it lets you scrub buffer (AAAAAAAAAB will be read as AAB if it exists). Its one of the reasons why so many people consider SC a "masher-friendly" series. Because any masher can play the game and make it LOOK like they know what they are doing to other mashers; when they really don't. But as I said, if you ask me, Virtua Fighter 5 is still the end-all-be-all of fighting games today. It has balance, is easily accessible to noobs with the long buffer system, and DOESN'T have a scrub buffer system. Not to mention, having a deep end game.

But... it doesn't have flash... so no one plays.
 
I totally agree with you on VF5's flash issues, although even VF5 sacrificed (a little bit of) depth to appeal to the masses - VF purists still see VF4:E as the deepest VF game out so far. Although, the increase of flash in VF5R is what's got me so hyped on that game, despite the fact there's still some obvious work to be done on that aspect of the game.

But do understand why SF4 is seen as the be-all-end-all of fighting games. The SF series has the title of the first ever competitive 1-on-1 game (SF2), not forgetting the amount of time it took for a new SF game to come out after its predecessor (10 or so years[?]). It's not surprising that it's seen that way.
 
Why do you think SC4 became so combo oriented? It needed flash. The fact that a newbie can just pick up the game, sit down for 30 minutes and start dealing out huge damage and impressive "combos" made SC4 (especially online) what it is today.

Not saying that its good or bad, just different.
 
I think some people were just starting to get into VF5 because it was a friendlier game to them then the rest and it was finally getting some deserved publicity. Still it didn't set arcades ablaze like SFII, so it's obvious you know where everyone's going.
 
although i think developers will push the 'accesabilty' of their games as games are becoming way more mainstream, more people who play means £££,online will get better and there'll be more focus towards it. more players playing easier games = less fun for us , for me its the casual gamer that has ruined online sc4
 
I've been somewhat of a fan of fighters all my life, but SC4 has been the first one that I've "taken seriously." The Virtua Fighters looked boring to me. Like Jaxel said, it's got no flash. I mean, even high-level play looks boring. And as for Tekken, well, I played it for fun when I was smaller, but it doesn't grab my attention as much as others. SF4 is almost too difficult because of the just-frame-esque combos.

I think I really like SC4 because of the complexities. Even on defense, you gotta decide to block high or low, GI, try to break a grab, or punish. I don't mind the CF system, as it adds another small level to the game and forces turtlers to actually try to GI or something. Each character, for the most part, is unique, both visually and move-wise.

Have any of you played Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Teisen 4 (GNT4)? It only came out in Japan, and for a Naruto game, it was really fun. It had certain just-frame combos, but it also had something called "Y cancels," which allowed mid-string cancels when your opponent is in mid-air. It had the flashy specials, which were simple to do. It had newb-friendly combos. However, behind all of that, the high level play wasn't bad either. Combos could get really complex and end in specials. Out of the 25+ cast, only two really stood out as top tier, and the rest were pretty balanced. It's easily one of the best fighters I've played.

I hope the next fighters aren't just geared towards the casual gamers though. On the other hand, don't make weak three-hit combos impossible either...
 
So which game would rank as the most difficult fighter to play?

I still find SF to be that, with these Trial Challenges, it really let me know how difficult some of the higher level combos are, i spent hours trying to conquer just one of the hard trials. It got to a point where it wasn't even fun anymore.
 
It's all about how many units you can sell. I agree with the consensus that we're going to see a lot more accessibility and probably some more flash too but if you had to ask me to posit something new for the conversation, I think we're probably going to be seeing more guest characters. I know SF IV doesn't have any but considering the kind of sales MK vs DC vomited up and how well the Star Wars angle worked out for SC IV I'm pretty sure the guests are here to stay.
 
Why is there a thread on this, to me it seems pointless. That's like making a thread saying "Where do Shooters go from here" everytime an incredibly awesome shooter comes out?

Anyways, a genre will not die unless it starts to suck, like board game video games. Until that happens, like every other competition, the games/ people/ companies will try to 1up eachother. Which may be bad for them, but it's great for us.
 
Astaroth136 said:
Have any of you played Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Teisen 4 (GNT4)? It only came out in Japan, and for a Naruto game, it was really fun. It had certain just-frame combos, but it also had something called "Y cancels," which allowed mid-string cancels when your opponent is in mid-air. It had the flashy specials, which were simple to do. It had newb-friendly combos. However, behind all of that, the high level play wasn't bad either. Combos could get really complex and end in specials. Out of the 25+ cast, only two really stood out as top tier, and the rest were pretty balanced. It's easily one of the best fighters I've played.
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I can't believe you just brought up GNT4 in this topic. Its one of the most simplistic and unbalanced fighting games out there. Out of the 25+ cast, only like 4 characters were tournament worthy. The game was incredibly simple and lacked depth... seriously, single button cancels that took no skill and timing.

DivineChaos97 said:
Anyways, a genre will not die unless it starts to suck, like board game video games. Until that happens, like every other competition, the games/ people/ companies will try to 1up eachother. Which may be bad for them, but it's great for us.
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Have you even played Itadaki Street Special or the highly inferior Culdcept? Amazing games...
 
Jaxel said:
I can't believe you just brought up GNT4 in this topic. Its one of the most simplistic and unbalanced fighting games out there. Out of the 25+ cast, only like 4 characters were tournament worthy. The game was incredibly simple and lacked depth... seriously, single button cancels that took no skill and timing.
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Was it really that unbalanced? There must be something I missed. Back when me and some friends played it, only a few characters stuck out as really, really good. There must've been a lot of stuff discovered after I stopped playing it.

Honestly, I thought it was a lot of fun. Although, I had friends to play it with too, and we mostly did free-for-alls and occassional one-on-one's. And I must not have been the only one, because there were numerous tournaments held for it IIRC. I guess it was most fun for me because it was a fighting game that all of my friends enjoyed and were good at.

I liked Culdcept too. What are your bashes on that? XD
 
DivineChaos97 said:
1.Why is there a thread on this, to me it seems pointless. That's like making a thread saying "Where do Shooters go from here" everytime an incredibly awesome shooter comes out?

2.Anyways, a genre will not die unless it starts to suck, like board game video games. Until that happens, like every other competition, the games/ people/ companies will try to 1up eachother. Which may be bad for them, but it's great for us.
Click to expand...

Not so, the difference in question number one is: More swearing, more gore and bigger explosions. Fighting games on the other hand are going to simply see increases in boob sizes.

2: How dare thee impute the mighty Chessmaster
 
This game is easily accessible to beginners. IF you know how to play SF2, which every casual and pro fighting game player worth his salt at least tooled around with, you can play SF4 easily.

LK LK LK is an ADVANCED COMBO. Just because you think the game should make it easy doesn't mean you're not an idiot.
Beginner, noob combo is MASH MASH MASH. Attacks will still come out. They wont CARE that LK LK LK LK LK isn't comboing, they are noobs. Noobs dont care about such fine details.

Oh, and VF is overrated garbage.
Any game that needs to needlessly over-complicate itself so god damn much is crying for attention.
Simplicity is the starting step to perfection. VF ran the opposite way.
VF basically just tries to take anything from another game it likes, and ruins it by adding exactly 70 unnecessary layers to it.

Here's one brain storming session by the head honchos at Sega:

"Throw breaks, huh? This game has one break, but it's super fast. Interesting. Those games over there have 2 - 3 breaks, but give you a lot more time. Seems fair enough. After careful review, I've decided to give the game EIGHT throw breaks, and make them stupid fast. Also, lets throw in some zero-frame throws because I'm a faggot."

The real reason no one plays the damn game is because we can see that it's in love with its own dick.
No player who's top at VF is good at any other fighting game, since you need:
1. a lifelong devotion to thinking you're better than other people and
2. a Bachelors in "Nocens Venatio"

just to get the fucking game to start on your system.
 
You clearly don't have much of an idea of how VF works.

What looks like "70 unnecessary layers" is just simple stuff (apart from the throw breaks, in which case the reasoning behind them is legitimately justified). The only reason they look heard is because you are forced to look past its blandness to appreciate the system. No casual gamer would wanna do that. Yet they wouldn't be able to put their finger on it. So they blame the system's depth.
 
Here we go again >_>

How about not liking VF because it's ugly, stiff, the animations are piss poor, the anatomy on the characters is horrible, when collision happens there is no bone crunching thuds, crumple stuns and sweet animations, it feels like paper dolls fighting??? Plus it's the ultimate hypocrisy, it claims to be all about super high level, complicated difficult set ups, but highest levels devolve into jabfest-throw set ups and repetitive moves that are just plain difficult to deal with. The game isn't nearly as balanced as most fighters on the market, ie. everyone in the game CAN'T win on high levels and the game is just boring and unappealing.

I think it's less about the game actually having a good engine and more about people with e-peens trying to justify why they suck at 'easy' fighters, and hide behind their VF because no one has any interest in that boring ass shit, so they can say they are good at it and it's "better" than the fighter you rape them in.

that's simply MY OPINION on the matter.

cha cha
 
KDZ And Chacha: I agree with the parts about VF looking ugly.. but... no offense... some points raised were SEVERELY innaccurate. Its actually a pretty simple game. Its just very different (because its system doesnt make offense and defense feel as 'natural') from many fighting games so its natural to see it as overly complex.

VF set ups go beyond "jabfest-throw set ups and repetitive moves" at high level.

This game is also more well balanced than you think chacha. In version C, lions were winning tournaments, and even scored OCVs in SBO... A lion won the tournament. In fact one of the top 2 players in Japan during version C was a lion player. Lion was second last in the tierlist.

And KDZ. top players in VF are good at other games too. Among the top 10 ranked SF4 players in Japan, A good number are VF players: Fuudo, Itabashi Zangief, JOE.

My examples are very centred in japan because like it or not, VF is pretty much a Japan-only game. Competition in most parts of the world cannot match up to their standard. Hell, most of the international scene is already dead/dying thanks to R.
 
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