Poking...

DrakeAldan said:
Yessir... I faced an insane Maxi today, who I won't name...

Poking was the only way out of his never-ending offense. even then, he'd sidestep or tech crouch...

um, when using 2A, is it faster to use WC moves?
I always felt like I'd get hit if I stood up after a 2A instead of staying down.
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Well 2a leaves you in crouch, which means you have access to full crouch (FC) moves as well as while rising/standing (WS/R) moves. You also can access standing moves that have a 4 or 6 input immediately, without having to cancel your crouch, as well as throw directly from a crouch. So after landing or having a 2a blocked, see what your fastest options are, how you can cover sidestep, etc.
 
hm.

yeah, after doing some studying it seems Amy kinda sucks with FC moves (oh, I dunno which notation to use anymore...)

so you're telling me that 66B could be buffered in right after a 2A just fine, but 33B has to wait until you start standing... right?
 
DrakeAldan said:
hm.

yeah, after doing some studying it seems Amy kinda sucks with FC moves (oh, I dunno which notation to use anymore...)

so you're telling me that 66B could be buffered in right after a 2A just fine, but 33B has to wait until you start standing... right?
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2A, FC 1B it's slow but it works nicely

and to answer your other question, yes.
 
well, yeah...

her best options out of FC are... slow. the kind of guys I have to use 2A on, uh... they ain't gonna stop for me.

I can't tell you how many times I've been hit out of FC 1/3B... v_v

but thanks for confirming my suspicions.
 
If 2A CHs

I am certain JF 66B is uninterrutpable

throw is uninterruptable too.

Learn to check hit and mixup after that.

oh yeah 2K after 2A is good
 
66B is always good (66B [or JF if you're feelin' fine], 6:6BA is always sexy.)

I'd have to go check it, but I don't think Amy can actually throw after a 2A, 'cause her throw range is HORRIBLÉ.

2K is fast, but it's negative on hit. which means I have to stop what I'm doing and block or GI. D:

(I actually think FC1B is negative on hit too, but it pushes out so much that I don't think it matters. you just have to worry about GETTING HIT OUT OF IT RRRGGGGGH)
 
2K is negative on hit. but if it interrupts an opponent you get a CH.. which is positive on hit.

And negative on hit is not a bad thing.

Negative does not mean you are put into a bad situation... positive does not mean you are being put into a good position either.

What it basically means is taht i puts you into a situation where you need to consider different options.

If 2K on normal hit leaves you at negative, its not so bad for an amy player.

If you think the opponent will attack immediately, GI. Gi is strong because it gives a free throw attempt.

For amy, a 44B after being put into negative will beat 2As and AAs and many other short ranged attacks.

Amy can also do 22B for a sidestep, 4B for a TC, and stuff..

so yeah you can aim to do evasive attacks when put at negative.

Plus amy has an i11 6B.... so after a 2K which gives negative, 6B is still gonna beat out lots of stuff.

This concept also applies to all other characters..

so in conclusion.. being put into negative frames is not a bad situation. it just means that you have different options to deal damage.
 
You can also get 6b,b string into dash mixups and such as well. Which is good, because her FC/WS game isn't very varied. Your go to moves out of crouch would probably be 6b, 66b and throw. Stand up and 1a them as well, it's only -1 on hit which means 1a, 6b,b frame traps on a lot of characters.
 
I guess it's just more training and experience, then.

I've been thinking about using GI/evasion moves on negative frames (sometimes it is GREAT SUCCESS! sometimes I get smacked out of 44B, sad panda ;_;

also, the Maxi I mentioned before would sometimes GI inbetween blocked strings expecting a retaliation- if I didn't delay anything, I would've eaten nunchaku all day...)

can Amy do 22B without standing first?! I would think that'd be a problem. I guess 4A would work too though (kinda...)

Thanks for the information everyone. field testing it is, then.

(I suppose if 6BB was mid-mid, Amy would be SNK-boss status :P)
 
DrakeAldan said:
I guess it's just more training and experience, then.

I've been thinking about using GI/evasion moves on negative frames (sometimes it is GREAT SUCCESS! sometimes I get smacked out of 44B, sad panda ;_;

also, the Maxi I mentioned before would sometimes GI inbetween blocked strings expecting a retaliation- if I didn't delay anything, I would've eaten nunchaku all day...)

can Amy do 22B without standing first?! I would think that'd be a problem. I guess 4A would work too though (kinda...)

Thanks for the information everyone. field testing it is, then.

(I suppose if 6BB was mid-mid, Amy would be SNK-boss status :P)
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44B isn't really that good, try use X and see her 44B or may be even Raph. After using that you know how limited Amy's 44B is. They are all the same move, but X>Raph>Amy in term of 44B.

A blocked 4A is a free launcher for your opponent T_T Did you ever experiment with a good old normal side step, I hear its better if you single tap it instead of holding it down, but I still get tracked like nothing.

6BB should hit be mid and guard break too haha.
 
If he's crouched, 4a will sidestep MUCH faster than a normal sidestep. It takes forever to sidestep from a crouch in SC4. But yeah, 4a is really unsafe on block, still a good move though.

How did this turn into a strictly Amy discussion? lol
 
ShenYuan said:
And negative on hit is not a bad thing.

Negative does not mean you are put into a bad situation... positive does not mean you are being put into a good position either.
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Hmm, sorry but that's pretty much exactly what positive and negative frames DO mean. Negative on hit is a pretty bad thing, too. You're actually facing a mixup when you get disadvantaged. If my BB can beat your fastest move because you're at - frames, your choice is to block for BB, risk a GI, or attack me back if you think I'm going to forego my BB and set you up with something bigger instead. The point is, you're the one who is put to the tougher decision because my advantage allows me to have more tools at that time. The disadvantaged player is the one fighting to rescue themself from that situation.

Actually, I feel like you already know your stuff and im just reiterating this, which is why I'm confused how you came to the conclusion that negative frames arent a bad thing. Fundamentally, disadvantage is a bad thing.
 
I think he just wanted me not to get discouraged fighting in the clutch.

... I still hate you and your vast knowledge of game mechanics. >_>
 
Fuzion said:
Hmm, sorry but that's pretty much exactly what positive and negative frames DO mean. Negative on hit is a pretty bad thing, too. You're actually facing a mixup when you get disadvantaged. If my BB can beat your fastest move because you're at - frames, your choice is to block for BB, risk a GI, or attack me back if you think I'm going to forego my BB and set you up with something bigger instead. The point is, you're the one who is put to the tougher decision because my advantage allows me to have more tools at that time. The disadvantaged player is the one fighting to rescue themself from that situation.

Actually, I feel like you already know your stuff and im just reiterating this, which is why I'm confused how you came to the conclusion that negative frames arent a bad thing. Fundamentally, disadvantage is a bad thing.
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He said negative frames does not mean you are put into a bad situation. The negative frames are bad, but the situation might be good when you take everything into account. This might mean the enemy is left crouching, you did a lot of soul gauge damage, or you are spaced in a certain way that you can avoid a good amount of attacks even though you are attacking from disadvantage. Of course, if you have positive frames and in the same conditions you have an absolute advantage, but being at frame disadvantage does not necessarily mean total disadvantage.
 
iKotomi said:
Pokes are low risks attacks. Pretty much this means you can throw them out without having to commit to significant disadvantage if the move gets blocked.
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Play Talim. Her :A::A: is -14 on block, i13 (her fastest move) and only does 17 damage.
 
iKotomi said:
He said negative frames does not mean you are put into a bad situation. The negative frames are bad, but the situation might be good when you take everything into account. This might mean the enemy is left crouching, you did a lot of soul gauge damage, or you are spaced in a certain way that you can avoid a good amount of attacks even though you are attacking from disadvantage. Of course, if you have positive frames and in the same conditions you have an absolute advantage, but being at frame disadvantage does not necessarily mean total disadvantage.
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That's a good point, and those things are definitely positive things for you to have. I agree with you when you say to take everything into account. It's possible to be in a "good" situation if you're taking 2 steps forward (spacing and soul gauge damage) and 1 step back (negative frames), depending on how heavily you weigh those benefits. My only point is that negative frames are always that one step back. It's always a bad thing, but hopefully you can get some space or something like that to mitigate it.

Especially in mirror matches. Cass vs Cass for example, even being -1 is an issue because now your BB beats mine if we both go for it. And I believe on hit she continues to have that advantage, so the pain continues.

I will say this though, MOST of the time those few negative frames are a very bad thing, especially when players don't realize roughly where they are at in terms of frame advantage/disadvantage. A lot of people have just a few small holes in their strat where they think they can like 2k on hit, 2k again or something and it opens them up to a sieg CH 3B or something in the middle.

And Drake, we're pals. Don't run from your feelings! ;]
 
That depends on the character's defensive options.

The way I've learned to look at it, being at positive or negative disadvantage simply means that your "mode" has changed. If you've got positive frames, you're in "offensive" mode and you get to pick how to press the attack. If you've got negative frames, you're in "defensive" mode and you get to pick how to defend. Neither is better or worse than the other, depending on the options with your character. For example, Taki is an abare machine, able to attack out of significant disadvantage and gain CHs. Hilde can use disadvantage to fish for aGIs for RO situations. Setsuka can TC into a lot of her most dangerous combos, and she also has one nasty aGI. And we all know how annoying Kilik is, even when he looks disadvantaged.

Provided, this is all provided that you guess right, which is no different even if you've got positive frames. Just because I've got my opponent at -5 frames doesn't mean that I'm any less vulnerable to being parried into a wall for a combo.
 
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