Preparation Glitch Discussion

WuHT said:
Aw too bad it doens't look like a NH combo. However, if it is inescapable, welcome back 66 damage (no meter, no wall) on 22B!
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what is the likelihood of that? are there non combo set ups that are completely inescapable in this game?
 
youngfox said:
what is the likelihood of that? are there non combo set ups that are completely inescapable in this game?
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Shit like this pops up in Soul games all the time. From BT JF in SC2, to VC bullshit in SC3 (or any number of glitches), doom combo gheyness relaunch in 4, to, apparently, prepless prepA+B, why be surprised?

I'm wondering if there is some part of the code from SC4 still lingering? 22B VE maybe is being registered? 3A came out of prep in 4, but didn't enter it, but maybe there is something weird? Are you consistently getting it out of 22B - I got it by accident a few times from here in tournaments and didn't worry about it too much cause it "worked".
 
piggy said:
Shit like this pops up in Soul games all the time. From BT JF in SC2, to VC bullshit in SC3 (or any number of glitches), doom combo gheyness relaunch in 4, to, apparently, prepless prepA+B, why be surprised?

I'm wondering if there is some part of the code from SC4 still lingering? 22B VE maybe is being registered? 3A came out of prep in 4, but didn't enter it, but maybe there is something weird? Are you consistently getting it out of 22B - I got it by accident a few times from here in tournaments and didn't worry about it too much cause it "worked".
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The major game code is still built on the SC1 core coding. There hasn't been a major code rewrite since SC1 DC version which forms the basis for what we use now, even in SC5.
 
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  • #27
Making the video now, and this glitch is possible after 66A and 8A+B - I'm assuming it's possible after most of his movelist. Will try to get some more exotic examples on video.
 
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  • #28
http://8wayrun.com/threads/raphael-gameplay-videos.8781/page-9#post-472055

The video is there. There we are, gentlemen. As LAU said, it's similar to Cervantes BT B+K "Just Frames" in that the timing involved for it is fairly percise. It's hard to explain, but you need to hit "3A+BA+B" near the end of a move's recovery animation, with that timing being different depending on what move you're doing. I have a feeling you can do it with any move of his, or at least a wide variety of moves, as the video shows. I've not been able to do iPrep k(BE) yet, unfortunately, and I'm not sure if it's even possible, but hopefully this will inspire some of you to experiment on your own.

Happy fencing.
 
Theory:
The coding takes the command list instruction literally, and prep is entered off of "holding :B:" with a 3 input.

The instruction for the end of a certain move is lazy and just wants to see that :(B): hold no matter what move you do.
(Maybe the reason you don't actually enter prep is because the animation is part of the move, but the 'state' change is separate - sensible, since every transition has different timing)
So the A+BA+B you're doing is actually a B input at the right point.

This will be figured out. Wowowow Heaton.
 
Please find a variant of this bug that goes into SE. Raph being able to pull out any SE attack without going into it would be the best.
 
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  • #31
Just a quick tip: if you get A+B, you're doing it too early, and if you get 3A, you're doing it too late.

On other Preparation moves and Shadow Evade moves...I'm not sure if those are possible. I haven't been able to get iPrep K to come out under any circumstances, though I have not tried as hard. Until I see a video of someone do that on accident, I probably won't look into that too hard. Same with iShadow Evade, if that's even possible. Sucks, but I have a feeling something like that would be patched out instantly, since things like CH 3A ~ SE B would be all but guaranteed if there was no entrance. Even on block, that's kind of insane for someone like Raphael.
 
piggy said:
3A came out of prep in 4, but didn't enter it, but maybe there is something weird?
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That's what I think it comes down to, because Aris found a similar bug with Voldo a few days ago. Voldo's 4K used to be a CR move, but now it's not. But if you hit buttons fast enough together with 4K you can do a couple instant CR moves. So I think the first few frames of these moves might think you're in their SC4 stance and you can override them if you hit another move before they come out.

A lot of people were focusing on the 3B part of 3A+B, but I think it's the 3A that's doing it and adding the B shifts it into Prep A+B. That's all just theory based on a couple of instances though. Could end up being 2 different glitches.
 
JayShadow said:
That's what I think it comes down to, because Aris found a similar bug with Voldo a few days ago. Voldo's 4K used to be a CR move, but now it's not. But if you hit buttons fast enough together with 4K you can do a couple instant CR moves. So I think the first few frames of these moves might think you're in their SC4 stance and you can override them if you hit another move before they come out.
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LOL this is why you comment your code to make it maintainable.
*has no loyalty to his trade*

A lot of people were focusing on the 3B part of 3A+B, but I think it's the 3A that's doing it and adding the B shifts it into Prep A+B. That's all just theory based on a couple of instances though. Could end up being 2 different glitches.
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Yeah that's what I believe now.
I think it's important to have these theories in the back pocket, to assist in finding the easiest activation, to scope out similar exploits, or with luck find different exploits with the same cause.
 
some more tips and notes....

thanks to Heaton video I've been able to replicate it.. and I'm pretty sure no other Prep moves will work... and the reasons are below...

First in the video you see Heaton doing 3A+B (3)A+B, 5A+B

although I'm sure Heaton and maybe the others knows this.... the INITIAL 3A+B is meaningless....

it can be done 3A, (3)A+B, 5A+B

YOU DO NOT NEED TO HOLD ANY BUTTONS..... TAPPING IS FINE! (just want people to be clear)

i personally don't think it's possible to do (3)A+B,(3)A+B... i think letting it go back to neutral is important.

like Heaton said.. the timing is .... on recovery frames buffer.... think of it as trying to confuse the computer to not be sure if you want the initial 3A+B OR 5A+B.... 3A+B = 3A, 5A+B = A+B

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22B, (3)A+B,5A+B is probably not a combo.. infact when i first did it it whiffed.... :(

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reason why it doesn't go into other prep moves.... and other notes...

The first time I was doing this I was replicating Heaton's video command by command.. and thought the initial 3A+B (3A) was important.... so I kept doing this for a good amount of time... til I got the timing down kinda..... then.... I tried out 3A+B, (3)A+B, 5K hoping to get Prep K because the move is distinct... after many tries...... the best I've got out of it... is Prep A+B again.... which leads me to believe MAYBE.. the 5A+B doesn't need to be 5A+B it can be other stuff...

however after I realize I can do the same thing with 3A, (3)A+B,5A+B.... I couldn't get 3A,(3)A+B,5K to get Prep A+B even once....


hope this helps

Thanks to Heaton for the video and the initial discovery

-LAU
 
Haven't tested it out myself but good job on all this research.

From neutral, the 40 damage of prep A+B would be pretty darn good for some combos that lack it. Maybe getting instant-prep from neutral is impossible so the focus is on discovering where unprepA+B can fit into strings where we feel the damage is lacking.

How does it connect after prepK on CH ? The new prepBBB stun combo ? 33B on CH ? Though I must admit if you do get all 3 hits of A+BA as a combo ender its unlikely to be beat.
 
WuHT said:
Haven't tested it out myself but good job on all this research.

From neutral, the 40 damage of prep A+B would be pretty darn good for some combos that lack it. Maybe getting instant-prep from neutral is impossible so the focus is on discovering where unprepA+B can fit into strings where we feel the damage is lacking.

How does it connect after prepK on CH ? The new prepBBB stun combo ? 33B on CH ? Though I must admit if you do get all 3 hits of A+BA as a combo ender its unlikely to be beat.
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I'll try those out.. but I'm not super with the timing of doing other moves yet.... and i haven't played around with block vs no block.....

right now i'm just doing the moves on whiff then prep a+b

-LAU
 
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  • #37
Did some work in the lab. Directions given in notes (left and right) are from the opponent's perspective. Damage values with non-teching opponent damage first, and then tech trap damage second. The A+BA combos are listed for comparison.

CH 33B ~ A+BA - 69 damage
CH 33B ~ iPrep A+B - 64 damage, 77 damage [1]

CH Prep BBB ~ A+BA - 52 damage
CH Prep BBB ~ iPrep A+B - 87 damage [2]

CH Prep K ~ A+BA - 56 damage
CH Prep K ~ iPrep A+B - 52 damage, 65 damage [3]

Catches forward tech. Can be evaded by backward tech if 33B hits at tip range. Inconsistently catches right tech if 99B is used. Evaded by left tech.
Can be blocked after forward or backward tech. Evaded by left or right tech. Not a combo in any sense of the word.
Catches forward and backward tech. Evaded by left or right tech.

In essence: in two cases, iPrep A+B gives better damage on the chance they decide to tech backwards or forwards, and similar damage if they just take it. In either case, this thing has serious whiffing issues - I'm assuming that Prep A+B was designed with the intention of only being able to combo from 66B.
 
I am trying to find a way to incorporate this into my game during matches, but its just too inconsistent and it takes my mind of the game. I was able to do it twice today during a match, but for now i will only try to do it in a specific situations when there is a little risk involved if i get 3 A or A+BA. If there is more consistent way perform this, buffer 3 or something it will benefit Raphael`s game for sure....until its patched of course.
 
Anybody able to do this after a move that goes into fc? Because i think its impossible.

However been looking into using it at places where ive been using 44b.... problem is getting the timing is quite hard making this not a great choice
 
i did it yesterday with
3(B) 11K O__o wtf? there is no A+B input in the command list...

got the video will upload it soon.
 
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