Putting together a proper matchup chart...

LAU said:
if the French beats the Americans during Evo with Asta, Sieg and NM

that would really make my day

and perhaps this is when this thread would be closed...

-LAU
Click to expand...

Such hostility my god (laughs on the inside)! Damn bro don't let people get to you. I think if the French could make a matchup/tier list so can the U.S. etc.

Honestly it may not be possible but I think only certain people should have input in these discussions. Example top three of each respective character and people who I repeat have entensive experience.

Example:

Kilik:

Wing_Zero
Something-Unique
Hayate (Yes I know he's with the french but who gives a fuck)

Hilde:

RTD
Ceirnian

Rock:

Lau
Bentleet

Sophitia:

Ramon
MTFighter
Suirad

Amy:

Thugish_Pond
STD

Cassandra:

JTO
KDZ

Astaroth:

Saitoh

Star Wars:

Oofmatic

Seong Mi-na:

Page
InsaneKhent

Ivy:

Linkrkc
Woahhzz

Yoshimitsu:

HajimeOwari

Maxi:

KrayzieCD

Taki:

Dreamkiller

etc.

Then there are people who are just rational thinkers such as Idlemind.

These are examples of people who know what the hell they are talking about for each respective character. Also it helps provide support for people who play characters who are not in the area. Its the harsh reality unfortunately but these are people who know what they are talking about.

Does anyone agree with me or am I to harsh?
 
I think if you don't like the discussion you can simply avoid it...your loss because when it's finally finished your input will have no place the list.

Most good players have a pretty good idea about each match-up pertaining to their character...So like we were doing before just get it done in each arena and round it up aftward...

Just don't give up half way from frustration, if it's organized it will get done.
 
KingAce said:
your loss because when it's finally finished your input will have no place the list.
Click to expand...
Lack of foresight alert! Lack of foresight alert!

What if the person giving input is the same one who has made the tier listing obsolete? Like, if someone were to consistently win matchups that they aren't "supposed" to... but they weren't around to say so before... is their input still unworthy?

Let me guess, suddenly it's now the player that is just gifted, and the character is still trash... because everything was established long ago, and it has been set in stone, and God is pleased with his 10 Commandments. All who oppose are delusional souls.
 
I'll add.

Rock match-up is 4 against everyone EXCEPT:
Algol-3 (non-debatable, agreed by most Rock players this one is very hard due to bubble shield and spacing)
Asta-5 (this one is debatable, but I find this match-up easier than some have stated)
Yoda- 5 (Disagreed by me, as I find this hard, but many in the community find this easier)
Talim- 6 (poor damage/range gives Rock so many opportunities to build momentum that this one is in his favor)
 
Something-Unique said:
Honestly it may not be possible but I think only certain people should have input in these discussions. Example top three of each respective character and people who I repeat have entensive experience.

These are examples of people who know what the hell they are talking about for each respective character. Also it helps provide support for people who play characters who are not in the area. Its the harsh reality unfortunately but these are people who know what they are talking about.

Does anyone agree with me or am I to harsh?
Click to expand...

Aw, Unique, no mention of me for Talim? Haha, nah it's all good man. I saw you put the "etc". (I will be more than an etc. someday... I promise)

But anyway, I don't think you were harsh at all. I absolutely agree that people who know what they're talking about are essential to building this type of thing. I just think that it shouldn't necessarily be limited to the "top" 3.

For example, what if you have someone who wins lots of tournaments with a character, and is well known, but doesn't have... or need... extensive anti-character knowledge? They could be playing, say, Voldo or Amy, and because of the myriad of tools at their disposal, they only need a few moves and really good mind games to beat people.

Then what if you have someone who plays that same character, doesn't really win much in tournaments, (maybe due to nerves or choking under pressure) isn't very well known on the boards, but has TONS of anti-character knowledge and knowledge of their characters? Is this person's opinion, should they choose to provide one, still unqualified?

This would be especially true of those who play lower-tier characters because chances are: one, they aren't winning with them in tourneys, and two, they are forced to learn massive amounts about their character and the others just to remain competitive.

I do know what you mean though. Sometimes you read character strats that just make you go "wtf? why would you use that?..." But I'm sure sometimes even the top players can learn stuff from less experienced player that maybe they haven't tried or considered before.... sometimes... maybe?

I actually find this type of matchup chart interesting, honestly. I just know that I wouldn't want to have someone tell me my input isn't valid simply because of lack of production in tourneys or lack of a reputation in the community.
 
from where this thread is going I can tell most people care a lot more about not making it to Something Unique's Player Estimation Ranking (SUPER) than doing a proper matchup chart. Lets close this thread and make another one on who's the best with "character name".
 
LAU... stop going into every matchup thread for the sole purpose of hating. If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU.

As for now... even though Tiamat said not to waste the effort, this seems to be coming along nicely as I have seen many discussions on the soul arenas where people are discussing matchups. Just so you guys know, I'm not just accepting every matchup chart that comes my way; I will of course consider the reputation of the player when comparing it to other matchup charts.

Remember that for each character, there is not just ONE matchup chart. For instance, Talim VS Tira... the Talim community thinks this is a slight advantage matchup for Talim at 6:4. So does that mean it immediately goes into the chart with a 6:4? Of course not... What if the Tira community think's its an advantage for Tira? These things will all be discussed.
 
Jaxel:

please read what I wrote before you say it's not constructive

with exception to Seigfried's thread which i was pointing out the obvious.... every other thread... i was putting in constructive points that I was serious about... and perhaps I could agree with you and say that's 'hating'... but someone mentioned only France/DR players are worth listening to... everybody else are scrubs... i was simply replying to that.

Raphael matchup thread got closed before anybody made any agreement with it..... I simply stated something about the difference between Rock/Asta vs Raph.. and how Bubble's point didn't make sense.. unfortunately he got scared and closed the thread before I can reply... take a look.. you'll see it's NOT hating but it is constructive.. guarantee you

Nightmare thread.. I forgot what I wrote but I don't need to continue with that thread....

Sophitia's thread... i was saying sophitia > Setsuka and NM.. and gave legit reasons... strategies that I use and find useful.. I think that's probably the most constructive post in the entire match up thread... once again.. please read...

there's still some 20+ characters that I haven't had a chance to go through...

so... imo... besides from Sieg's thread that I could see why you say I'm 'hating' everywhere else has been very constructive....

UNLESS

you're telling me that my CONSTRUCTIVE opinion doesn't matter... and only selected players matter...

then why don't we just call this

'Jaxel's match up thread' or.... 'Bubble's matchup thread'

if you're saying this is the collective whole match up thread....

it doesn't make much sense...

first we all know as time goes by players gets better... and the tier chart changes through time... i don't think anybody thought Hilde was the best on day 1... well she is now.... and you never know later a low tier character might end up MID tier

I think you can collect all the matchup data here.. but you do know that there will be problems when a A>B and B>A... who should you listen to?

finally now people are CLOSING the individual match up threads and you can't even discuss in them as well... so... how can you consider that as a meaningful match up thread....

just because I don't agree with some of the SA mod and what they thought the ratio should be like that's not hating that's just putting my point of view.... once again go back and read what i wrote... with exception to siegfried... everything else kinda do make sense....

and it really doesn't help when there's certain players that i know for certain they haven't played against a 'good rock' but making statements based on their limited knowledge... but saying it as if it's the truth.... the individual match up thread doesn't address the issue that perhaps some of the major contributers aren't 'up to par' skill wise.... i mean... hey I tell people what i think (constructively) of the tiers and stuff.. people listen to me because they respect me... but perhaps the truth is... I'm just a scrub that will lose to anybody who's half decent. I don't wanna list player names but theory fighting and practical fighting are seperate issues. A PERFECT yoshimitsu is S+++ tier.... but nobody ever came close to playing that yoshimitsu imo (theoretically i can use his unblockable reversal to beat everyone AND get back life back... practically nobody base their strategy with that move... theoretically 3B -> 4A jf is an infinite and RO easily better than hilde.. practically i never seen it done more than two times in a row in a video)



-LAU
 
I find it acceptable that a true 5-5 matchup may be viewed as 6-4, 5-5, or 4-6 based on the player that evaulates that particular matchup. I mean, the amount of anti-character experience, preferred style, local competition, and other factors would greatly influence the final evulation.

With that, I want to point out perhaps the most interest discussion that I saw ... about the Nightmare vs Kilik matchup, people are rating it from 3-7 to 7-3 ! This could mean that this matchup is way complicated and definitely needs to be explored some more.
 
ZeroEffect317:

Let me clarify my list wasn't meant to phase people out lol. It was meant to streamline things so the lists could be completed faster and move forward through irrational debates that woul come otherwise. My logic isn't perfect and wasn't meant to be. Just an alternative to speed things up and in my eyes be more accurate.

Yes the etc. was meant to say their is room for a ton of other opinions such as rational people. Though those are few and far in between.

In the end it was just an idea. Not something that I felt should be set in stone. Lol.
 
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