Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

Slade said:
Completely agree on your assessment that Raphael wins this through attrition. Small but constant opportunities for damage with moves like 2K and 6BB really add up.

However, there's not much of a mixup to be had with Prep. An option does not necessarily need a 100% success rate to be effective. 51% would suffice given a large enough number of events, and I would venture that Nightmare's 77K is in fact capable of shutting down Prep often enough as to make it ineffective.
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that awesome moment when Slade actually agrees with your statement XD

77K? if I could I'd look into that...however I can't T_T

100% and 51% can be the difference between loss and victory, while I agree 51% is enough to work with, the fact is if my opponent gets ballsy with a move that I can punish, I'd like to be certain that I can punish it, anything less will cause doubt and can mean my opponent can get away with that move
 
I discover that BT B+K causes a knockdown in CH, maybe something that not everyone know. You can also combo with BT 2B for like 48 damage. That's it, I know is pretty useless, but I wanted to share with you guys anyway.
 
Aven Kujo-Gin said:
I discover that BT B+K causes a knockdown in CH, maybe something that not everyone know. You can also combo with BT 2B for like 48 damage. That's it, I know is pretty useless, but I wanted to share with you guys anyway.
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It also wallsplats for the usual 3A into finisher. Used that in about 2 real matches - started playing on release.
 
hwang24 said:
Question: What are good follow-ups to Raph's 22B other than CE, 3A, 2K or 2B?
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2A, which you should always use instead of 2K in close range since 2A is +8 on hit while 2K is -2 on hit.

3K leaves your opponent in standing position. They will most likely keep standing, so you can try grabbing them afterwards or use 2K or 11K. If you expect them to interrupt, you can use 3A, 2A, 6BB or keep using 3K until they stop mashing.

11BB should be used when 22B hits at tip range. Other attacks will likely whiff. You may follow-up with 236B afterwards, which will be a forced block for ukemi.

66A+B (Front and to your opponent's left side only) is good for building meter and you can do 236B afterwards, which the opponent is forced to block if they ukemi. If you 66A+B to your opponent's right, they can tech left to escape it. Sometimes, your opponent is stunned in such an angle that they will face your direction, so you need to watch out for that. It seems to happen randomly. If you delay 66A+B slightly, it will become a tech trap for right, back and front ukemi. If that happens, don't bother doing BT B+K or BT B afterwards because they will whiff.

1B (To your opponent's right side only). Same as above, except using 236B afterwards is only a forced block for back ukemi.

66B+K. Use this when your opponent's guard guage is flashing red. They can't avoid it unless they ukemi. Even then, you still have a chance to hit them. It catches right ukemi if you're standing in front of them and to their right, and it catches left ukemi if you're standing to their left. It catches back ukemi from all sides, and front ukemi can only escape it when you're standing very close in front of them. I recommend using 3(B) after hitting them with 66B+K since it will hit them if they tech to the front or backwards (although back ukemi can escape at tip range). If they tech left or right, Prep will follow the opponent. You can interrupt with Prep BB or Prep K if they tech left/right or stand up immediately. If they roll, they'll barely have any time to punish.

A+BA does the most damage meterless, but isn't worth the risk unless you're fighting Astaroth, Nightmare or Aeon. You need to be as close to your opponent as possible and to their right. They can still ukemi even after the first hit connects (unless they're Astaroth, Nightmare or Aeon).

11K is a ukemi trap, but can be blocked if the opponent doesn't ukemi. You may follow-up with 3A or 8A+B/4A+B to GI horizontals, but this isn't recommended against Xiba since he can B+K to GI and attack. Instead, follow-up with 6BB against Xiba.


Gimmicks: 33A, 7/8/9A, 44A+B and 3B:

33A is a ukemi trap, while Jump A is a ukemi trap for right, back and front ukemi. Honestly, there is no real reason to use these. There are better options.

44A+B is self-explanatory. I advise you to not use it every time otherwise it will become predictable. Only use this when you're fighting someone who doesn't ukemi every single time and when you think they won't expect it. It can't be stepped if they stand up right away, so all they can do is JG. You can gamble if you don't have much health left and not enough meter for CE.

3B only works under certain conditions. You need to be right in front of your opponent, but as far away as possible. Just far enough for 22B to hit. When you notice that the hit effect is low (around the legs), then you can attempt to 3(B). I tested this on all characters and I can confirm it works against Nightmare, Aeon, Cervantes, Ezio Auditore, Raphael, Leixia, Hilde and Ivy. It won't work on the rest of the cast. It's easiest to do against Nightmare, Aeon, Cervantes and Leixia, while it's more difficult against the other aforementioned characters, especially Ivy and Hilde.
 
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Apoc Revolution said:
A+BA does the most damage meterless, but isn't worth the risk unless you're fighting Astaroth, Nightmare or Aeon. You need to be as close to your opponent as possible and to their right. They can still ukemi even after the first hit connects (unless they're Astaroth, Nightmare or Aeon).
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I am pretty sure you can SSR after 22B and always land A+BA
 
linkorz said:
I am pretty sure you can SSR after 22B and always land A+BA
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If sidestep right is what you mean, then no. A+B tracks to the right, so you have to stand to your opponent's right. A+BA after Prep BBB when your opponent is stunned also only works to their right side. That's why you do 8, A+B/2, A+B depending on which side of the screen you're standing at.
 
linkorz, thanks for your input of clarification. What a wealth of information, Apoc Revolution. Thank you.

It took me quite a while to try to image out what was being dscussed here:
linkorz said:
I am pretty sure you can SSR after 22B and always land A+BA
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Apoc Revolution said:
If sidestep right is what you mean, then no. A+B tracks to the right, so you have to stand to your opponent's right. A+BA after Prep BBB when your opponent is stunned also only works to their right side. That's why you do 8, A+B/2, A+B depending on which side of the screen you're standing at.
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The only part of this I may not grasp is doing Prep BBB then A+B,A. Did you mean doing this after a 22B hit overall (which I sort of doubt respectfully) or just in a successful Prep BBB hit in general? If the case is the latter, may an opponent be able to escape the following A+B,A by an ukemi to her/his left; since A+B,A tracks right?
 
hwang24 said:
linkorz, thanks for your input of clarification. What a wealth of information, Apoc Revolution. Thank you.

It took me quite a while to try to image out what was being dscussed here:


The only part of this I may not grasp is doing Prep BBB then A+B,A. Did you mean doing this after a 22B hit overall (which I sort of doubt respectfully) or just in a successful Prep BBB hit in general? If the case is the latter, may an opponent be able to escape the following A+B,A by an ukemi to her/his left; since A+B,A tracks right?
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After a successful Prep BBB hit when your opponent is stunned. Examples: 4(B), Prep BBB. SE B, 3(B), Prep BBB. 1B/3A W!, 3(B), Prep BBB. And in rare occasions: 22B at tip range, 3(B), Prep BBB. CH 1K/Prep K after clashing with opponent, 3(B), Prep BBB. It doesn't work after CH 22K because it stuns the opponent in the same way that the last hit of Prep BBB does, and you can't do the same stun twice in a combo.

So after you stun them with Prep BBB, you do 8,A+B (left side of the screen) or 2,A+B (right side of the screen). It has to be a very small step, as if it looks like you barely stepped at all. Then you input A+BA right after that. You also need to stand close to your opponent. It's inescapable if they don't tech. If they do tech, then only small characters can escape after the first hit connects. For back ukemi, every character can escape unless they have their back against the wall/edge. Astaroth and Nightmare are the only characters who can't escape at all. And because their hitbox is so large, you don't even need to step if you're standing right in front of them.

However, A+BA won't work if you're standing to your opponent's left. In that case, just do 66A+B or 2B. If you're standing to their right, then you don't need to step.
 
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Some people may already know this information, but I'm going to list some things that may help players who are unaware and want to improve.


Raphael has various frame traps he can use. Frame traps are attacks that will catch step and interrupt almost anything. These are frame traps where the opponent is forced to guard or crouch:

CH 3A, 3B or BB or 6BB
NH SE A, 3B or BB or 6BB (6BB close range only)
NH 6B(B)/Prep B(B), Prep BB or Prep AB
NH 6A(B)/Prep A(B), Prep BB
Guarded 66(B), Prep BB or Prep AB
NH 1B, BB or 6BB
NH WR A, BB or 6BB or 4K
NH WR K, 6BB or 6AB or 3A or 4K
Guarded 33K BE, BB or 6BB
NH 2A, WR B or FC 2B (FC 2B only if opponent is crouched after being hit by 2A)
NH 2A, 6BB or WR K or 4K
NH 3K, 3A or 6AB or 4K
CH BBB or NH BBB if opponent doesn't guard the last hit, 3A or 6AB or 4K
NH WR B, 3A or 4K (Close range only)
NH 66A, 3A or 6AB or 4K
CH 22A, BB or 6BB or 6AB or 3A or 3K or 4K or 6K (Close range only, except BB and 4K)
NH 44A(B), Prep BB or Prep AB
Guarded SE B, 3A or 2A (Opponent's back facing the wall/edge)
NH 11K, 3A or 2A
NH 22K, 3A or 4K or 6AB
NH 6B+K, 3A or 2A or 6AB
NH 2K, 2A
NH 7/8/9K, 3A or 6AB or 4K
NH 7/8/9A, 3A or 6AB or 4K (Close range only)

Some characters can escape some of these with TS moves or moves that have a built-in backstep. Ivy and Leixia for example, can use 3B/214B and 1B+K respectively to escape the NH 1B, BB and Guarded 33K BE, BB frame traps. But they can't escape NH 1B, 6BB and Guarded 33K BE, 6BB. Xiba can escape both NH 1B, BB and NH 1B, 6BB with 4A. Some frame traps don't work on Mitsurugi and α Patroklos because they can quickstep left to avoid some of them. A few examples: They can escape the CH 3A, 3B frame trap, but not CH 3A, BB or 6BB. And they can escape the Guarded 33K BE, BB frame trap, but not Guarded 33K BE, 6BB.


Using Left Needle in wall combo's:

This is angle dependant and is more difficult to do against small characters, but not impossible. In most cases, you need to stand very slightly to your opponent's left after wallsplatting them with 3A, but standing directly in front of them sometimes works as well. If you're standing even slightly to your opponent's right side, it will not work. You should always use this when possible because it does a lot of extra damage. With experience, you will know when it's likely to work or not. Left Needle works in the following situations:

CH 3A W!, Left Needle
CH 3A W!, 3A W!, Left Needle
SE B, 1B W!, Left Needle
SE B, 1B W!, 3A W!, Left Needle (Works better on large characters)
1B W!, 3A W!, Left Needle
Prep K BE W!, 1B W!, Left Needle
44A+B W!, 3A W!, Left Needle
66K W!, 3A W!, Left Needle (Doesn't work on large characters)

Against Astaroth only:

22B, 3A W!, Left Needle
22B, 3A W!, 3A W!, Left Needle
Prep K BE W!, 22B, 3A W!, Left Needle
4A+B GI (B during GI) W!, 3A W!, Left Needle

After hitting the opponent with Left Needle, you should use A+BA instead of 3(B), Prep BBB. Prep BBB won't stun because the same stun is already used when Left Needle hits. I recommend finishing the combo with 8,A+B (left side of the screen) or 2,A+B (right side of the screen). It's easier to do this when using Left Needle in wall combo's. Sometimes, the opponent may face sideways after getting hit by Left Needle. If that happens, then it's not necessary to step before finishing with A+BA.

The combo's listed above don't work with Right Needle. The only wall combo where Right Needle will work is this:

B+G (Slightly to your opponent's left side) W!, 3A W!, Right Needle. But this doesn't work often and isn't worth the risk.


There are other situations where you can use Left Needle/Right Needle. You can use Right Needle to interrupt Leixia doing WR B after guarding 3A+B. You can use Right Needle to interrupt Xiba doing the last hit of A+BB,K after guarding the first attacks. You can step vertical string attacks and punish with Left Needle/Right Needle. You can predict opponents stepping one way due to a wall or edge blocking the other side and catching them with Left Needle/Right Needle, etc.
 
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hwang24 said:
The only part of this I may not grasp is doing Prep BBB then A+B,A.
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The 3rd hit of prepBBB also has a special CH stun if the first 2 moves are blocked compared to the first hit of prepBBB was on CH (which guarantees all 3)

Apoc Revolution said:

So after you stun them with Prep BBB, you do 8,A+B (left side of the screen) or 2,A+B (right side of the screen).
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Its good to clarify this to newer members.
As a general rule of convention and brevity, all notations are implied to have the player be in the 1p position.
 
WuHT said:
The 3rd hit of prepBBB also has a special CH stun if the first 2 moves are blocked compared to the first hit of prepBBB was on CH (which guarantees all 3)
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Did you mean to say...The 3rd hit of prepBBB also has a special CH stun if the first hit of prepBBB was on CH (which guarantees all 3) compared to if the first 2 moves are blocked?
 
hwang24 said:
Did you mean to say...The 3rd hit of prepBBB also has a special CH stun if the first hit of prepBBB was on CH (which guarantees all 3) compared to if the first 2 moves are blocked?
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not really.

Scenario 1: Lets say during prep you press BBB and the first hit is on CH (you caught the opponent backdashing). What happens is that Raphael scores 3 hits and the opponent staggers back (but you're actually at even frames). There is no special stun in this scenario.

Scenario 2: Lets say during prep you press BBB but the opponent blocks the first 2 hits and tries to beat you out before the 3rd hit (say with a 2A). What happens is they suffer a special crumple stun that you can followup with a CE).
 
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