Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

Hi all. I'm really sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else but about raph's 66A+G, as well as gaining life, the opponent gains meter (as synraii observed in a casual we had), by quite a bit (1/3rd of a full meter if not more).

AZ
 
ghost_whistler said:
Thanks.

I don't know what tech jump/crouch moves are.
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Raph has a lot of moves with evasion built in. It makes him a bit 'gimmicky' and unreliable compared to characters who are perhaps stronger at a basic level on paper, but he can still be quite powerful when he gets it right.

His 6K and 44K are both excellent tech jumps that can go over lows, avoid throws, and even interrupt anything not fast. These are your reliable tech jumps.

He has too many tech crouches to count. 4(B) has a lot of range and combos into nice damage on normal hit. 1K works well up close against characters who rely on fast highs, gives some damage on counter-hit, and can even track step a little. 44B is a risky but damaging back step combined with tech crouch that will avoid quite a lot of stuff. A+BA is a nice string that backs up and crouches at the beginning, jumps in the middle, and then land crouching once again. And then of course there is his SE stance where all three options crouch the whole time.

Experiment with Raph's evasive moves and learn to apply them effectively against different characters. Be patient since it won't always work out at the beginning. When you get it right, Raph instills a lot of hesitation in his opponent and nullifies a lot of technical advantages 'stronger' characters might possess.

AzyG4Lyfe said:
Hi all. I'm really sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else but about raph's 66A+G, as well as gaining life, the opponent gains meter (as synraii observed in a casual we had), by quite a bit (1/3rd of a full meter if not more).

AZ
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I noticed this, and I don't like it. I guess Raph is risk vs reward ALL the time.
 
Does 4A+B and 8A+B only GI certain attacks (like mid/high) attacks, because I cannot get this to work at all. Necro form isn't much better at all. The timing seems wonky to me. I've pressed the button and as he does the animation, then gets hit, it still fails.
 
I find this game really frustrating now. Raphael needs a damage boost. His output is just far too low compared to the likes of Nightmare (who isn't slow and commands huge range in all directions). Especially as he's very linear. He lacks quick enough attacks as well; i find it next to impossible to get under some characters because of this. For instance Mitsurugi has an attack where he swings his sword up twice, once from the right and once from the left. It seems to me that it's a vertical attack, he doesn't swing horizontaly but it seems to track impossibly. These idiot players spam this move over and bloody over and no amount of sidestepping or countering grants an opening. If i block the moves and then try and attack, they are able to block in return.
And the online environment is just horrible: cheap spamming moves over and over. I don't care what anyone says - if that's the game environment it isnt' fun. A win at all costs isn't a win imo: if the game becomes tedious spamming of cheaop moves and cheap characters then what's the point of playing it? Why am i wasting time practising ffs?
 
I find timing necro form really really hard.

This is the problem with these kinds of player: they have it easy because you have to rely on your defensive skills way more than them and that's the hardest part of the game - knowing moves and timing moves is a lot tougher than spamming a safe combo/move.

Of course that's cold comfort to me as my defensive skills are sucktastic.
 
Raphael just needs more than he has. He isn't really fast enough and he certainly isn't strong enough, nor does he really have the range and everything he has to close range can be interrupted (i've seen the ai grabe me in the midle of 66b).
 
ghost_whistler said:
Raphael just needs more than he has. He isn't really fast enough and he certainly isn't strong enough, nor does he really have the range and everything he has to close range can be interrupted (i've seen the ai grabe me in the midle of 66b).
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Well, you really shouldn't count anything the AI does against you as Raphael's weakness. The AI also throws immediately as you block and seems to be programmed for doing a mid immediately as you crouch in close range. Among other crap.

The real weakness of 66B is its linearity and it's up to you to make it hit. Don't throw it willy nilly, you have to somewhat set it up (eg. knock them down first) or make a read when the opponent won't step. I agree that Raphael needs more than he has, but pretty much every character could always use more. Fighting games are about using what you have and making it count.

That said I consider myself a Soulcalibur beginner and I'm finding the Nightmare matchup kinda horrendous. It seems like he can steamroll me as soon as he gets a knockdown and like every single poke knocks down! It's all just lack of experience but would be nice to have some starter tips against Nightmare as my local scene has three of them..
 
I think nightmare is a tough matchup right now, too (not a beginner). Nightmare, Astaroth, Natsu - those are the hardest for me as of now, and Leixa. Their tracking, range, damage and spacing are hard to cnotrol - just need more experience.
 
piggy said:
I think nightmare is a tough matchup right now, too (not a beginner). Nightmare, Astaroth, Natsu - those are the hardest for me as of now, and Leixa. Their tracking, range, damage and spacing are hard to cnotrol - just need more experience.
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We need to chat lol, I eat Nightmares alive. Then again, I live with a Nightmare player lol. Once you understand what his moves DON'T do well, he's easy to punish.


ghost_whistler said:
cheap spamming moves over and over.
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If you stick around long enough to learn why the above statement is invalid, you will feel good as hell blowing those players up, trust me lol. You just haven't had that "AHA!" moment yet where you realize how easy it is to beat someone that always does the same thing. Once (if) you get there, Soul Calibur will look like a whole new game to you.
 
I struggled against nightmare in SC4, too. I know that when he is shifting stances he can be hit, but I either use a high when he is TC, or I just guess wrong. I started doing a bit better just throwing out 2As, Tekken style, but really need to figure out how to get as much damage as possible.
 
scIV night was one of the easiest matchup for raphael he had tons of tools to punish anything from him....
Those moves now are or safer or gone (4B was a real threat for nighto).

2K against his mixups still works a lot. (if i reacll well >=i18 low beated all his mixups)
4b still connects a lot but without damage is a waste....
and 66B is usable ...

Dunno if his 22B is still 236B punishable.....but i think not.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
If you stick around long enough to learn why the above statement is invalid, you will feel good as hell blowing those players up, trust me lol. You just haven't had that "AHA!" moment yet where you realize how easy it is to beat someone that always does the same thing. Once (if) you get there, Soul Calibur will look like a whole new game to you.
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So tell me, why is it invalid?
 
22B is -10 on block, so safe against almost anything.

Kowtow mentions that spammers get easier to fight against because if they do the same thing over and over, you should be able to figure out how to beat it. You don't have to do anything fancy a lot of the time. Are they throwing out a lot of BB type stuff? 22B them to Bajeesus and back. AA all over the place? 236B, 44B, 1K, anything with a TC will get them. They never push guard? B(B),B(B),B(B) until they block, or you can RO with Prep K BE or B+G. You'll find something they are doing is unsafe and can be punished, then you will control the round.
 
First of all, hi. I've been playing casually since SCII and just started really looking into what the characters are capable of and how the game's really supposed to be played. Played II somewhat more than the others. Thus far, my strategy with Raphael has been to poke at range and whiff punish, mainly creating whiffs with 44B. Is this a good starting point? Or is there something else I should make my main thrust, so to speak?
Kurdijef said:
The real weakness of 66B is its linearity and it's up to you to make it hit. Don't throw it willy nilly, you have to somewhat set it up (eg. knock them down first) or make a read when the opponent won't step. I agree that Raphael needs more than he has, but pretty much every character could always use more. Fighting games are about using what you have and making it count.
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I've personally found that 66B is oddly effective. Not sure why, but it seems to track when the opponent is running rather than simply stepping. Could have been something weird rather than something repeatable, though.

I've mainly used Prep from 44AB on hit or punishing with 6BB, is there a better way to enter Prep? I saw 3B (I think) in one of the other threads, or perhaps upthread. I guess I'm just trying to make sense of the information I'm getting around here, but in some ways it's like drinking fruit punch from a fire hose and trying to discern which fruits were used in the punch.
 
I find that what Raph lacks in damage, he makes up for in consistency. There are lots of ways for him to combo for at least 60 damage (usually around 75 or higher), without having to rely on counter-hit setups. A good example would be Shadow Evade B. On hit you can go into 3B~Prep~BBB for a solid 75-80 damage (I think), and you can, of course, do the BE if you need the extra damage. He's also got 22B into the same combo for around 65 (again, I think).

Just keep mixing the opponent up and let them walk into your moves. If you can get them frustrated, they'll start mashing the same predictable moves, and at that point, you've already won. Also, as a side note, I personally find that his CE sucks, so I would use his BE's more often.
 
On paper yes Raphael has a lot of decent pokes that lead to decent damage. However, until the fix the crumple alignment after 22B, its hard to say he is "consistent".

3(B) is his bread and butter punish, in that its really fast and will NH for 40 damage (or almost 50 up close).
Its not as good a poke in SC4 as it doenst' push that far away on block without the stance transistion.

For meter usage, i think it is commonly understood that CE is not as useful (except for after a B+K attempt for a rounder ender) as his BEs. In particular, 6BB(BE) turns into a nearly 70 damage i12 interrupt, which means that in situations it actually does more damage than 4(B)~prepBB(BE) due to damage scaling ?
PrepK(BE) gets augmented by almost 40 damage, so his prep4 aGI turns into something pretty powerful with wallsplat combo and ringout potential.
 
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