Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

@Slade: I contributed that one yesterday too - it nets 159 guaranteed. You can get 154 by leaving out the 22/88B - that was previously the highest damage combo listed.

169 is the guaranteed number for the UB wall combo. It can go higher on counter, back or clean hit, like any other combo, but those factors are completely up to chance.

@Zanaken, I''d be happy to be proven wrong, but Slade's absolutely right. Combos are formed by a string of guaranteed hits, without the damage scale resetting. Tech traps don't count. Unless the game registers every hit as part of a single string, by definition it's not a combo.
 
You basically got it, but for some odd reason, the game counts tech traps such as 66B <tech> Prep K BE as a combo, it seems to hit the CPU at "guard-all after hit."

In these tech strings the stun diminishing returns stick around, so some 66B Prep combos might lose their stuns even after a tech.

The timing is hard to get, but once you get it you wont forget it. A trick is to go 66B Prep 4 ~ K BE... Very flashy.

The pseudo-combo, as I'll admit it is, goes 44A+B WS 66B Prep 4 (<---- Optional) ~ Tech Prep K BE WS 22B (not sure about 22B here, pretty sure you can 6B+K though) 33K BE CE 3A+B:5... Again, very flashy.

This is if memory serves, I'm not sure I executed the 66B Prep K BE for tech after a 44A+B WS. Either way, it should work after a normal 66B from neutral, I have the timing for that down - and it's awesome >:D

Prep K Techs ftw.

Seeing as Raphael doesn't have Viola's ooo-laa-laa "Touch of Death" combo, he shall instead use his "Touch of Edward" tech-combo/string/whatever, or T.O.E for short.

Once you have made an enemy suck on Raphael's T.O.E, he will remember you for life...
 
Ok. Let me start by saying that I'm really struggling to decipher those inputs, so I may need you to help me out here. Ignoring the tech trap for the moment, here's what I've got so far:

33K does not link from 22/88B, so it can't be in there - at least not where you say it is. And I don't know what you mean by "3A+B:5" (or is that the trick to perform Prep A+B without entering Prep?)

I have two variations of the part I could make sense of, one of them having a second wall splat, which reduces the damage slightly. I'll try to represent it below:

PREP :kA+B+K: W! :3::3:*:9::9::kA+B+K:, :2::3::6::2::3::6::A+B+K: = 133
----------------------------------------------------------------^
----------------------------------------------------------------^ second wall splat occurs here after 33/99K and before BE = 131

So, with that out of the way, what happens before this string, and what happens after?
 
Before you do a 66B, they hit the ground and are stunned - for about as long as you need to say, do a Prep A+B.

However, instead of a Prep A+B, you wait till Prep is just about to run out, and you do a Prep K BE. They just eat it if they were holding guard the whole time to get up.

Like I said, you can 66B after 44A+B WS, but I am not sure if that allows for a Prep K BE, seeing as I was having difficulty with it - and like I said, I can do it normally just fine. I think 22B is not right too, my memory is just fuzzy - I'm a bit tired. It might be 6B+K, if anything at all.

So,

44A+B WS (MAYBE, the rest works just fine) -
66B Prep 4 (Optional 4,) Prep K BE WS - 663K BE (for style points,) - CE - 3A+B:5 (Instant preparation A+B glitch.)

I think they die by the time iPrep A+B comes about due to the 44A+B starter, that's for the best seeing as they can just about avoid that.
 
Damn! I was going to say this after I tested to see whether or not it could be JGed after a whiffed re-GI but I'm to lazy.
Aeon's 6(K) can't be blocked after an immediate whiffed GI but it can be JGed. Since 6(K) is only 4 frames faster than 44A+B I would assume it can be JGed also.

Dealing with post-GI mixups under tournament pressure is extremely stressful though. You'd have to be on point in order to actually GI JG it, so it's still probably a viable tactic.
 
someone please tell me how useful raphael's GIs are (B+K, 8A+B, 4A+B, during prep 4) and how they work? i find them kinda useless lol
 
someone please tell me how useful raphael's GIs are (B+K, 8A+B, 4A+B, during prep 4) and how they work? i find them kinda useless lol

First thing to take note of: they don't work on kicks - and more annoyingly, they don't work against E.I.N.'s attackes, or Viola's orb. With that in mind...

8A+B: GIs stab-verticals and all horizontals. It's built into an attack, so damage is guaranteed. It's awesome at close range - the first hit is horizontal and tracks, making a great close-range run counter. Great for breaking the opponent's rhythm. Works well right after 11/77K.Can also be used to counter dive attacks from the air (Natsu, Pyrrha, Algol etc.)

4A+B: GIs high and mid horizontals. Has a fairly potent auto-counter on successful GI, which wall-splats if by a wall, leading into very heavy combos. It's useful against characters like Natsu and Pyrhha who use lots of horizontals at close range, but it requires good prediction.

B+K: Auto-evades and counters all verticals. The counter-attack has a guaranteed link to CE, and a back or side grab, if the opponent does not break it. Timing is very precise, so you'll need practice. There is one amazingly flashy application of this move - it evades Ezio's crossbow attacks at any range, teleports Raph right in front of him and counters, leading into the above combo. They never see it coming. It is awesome.

Prep: The Prep stance is actually an auto-evade by itself. While in Prep, Raph will automatically dodge high attacks by going into Shadow Evade stance (SE - the Matrix-style dodge manoevre, also activated manually by pressing 2 during Prep). If you're quick off the mark, you can get a (possibly) guaranteed SE B attack, which is the starter for all of Raph's best (non-wall) combos. I haven't tested this yet, but Prep may dodge high kick attacks.

Prep GI (4 during Prep): GIs all verticals. No auto-counter here, but as long as you're quick of the mark, Prep A+B and Prep K(BE) are guaranteed hits after GI. Again, timing is important. The key to using it is to vary the number of steps you take in Prep. In SCV, Raph steps forward exactly three times - much longer than SCIV. You can activate the GI any time during prep. Typically, instead of using it right away, let him take a step or two to lure out an attack - usually a long range stab. Baiting and GI-ing at the right moment will set you up for a guaranteed K(BE), which can both ring out and start a wall splat for Raph's second most damaging combo.

Generally, you shouldn't be too reliant on these, as they operate based on the opponent's inputs and require a great deal of precision to capitalise on. Spacing is still Raph's safest option. But then again if you can master these, you can largely eliminate Raph's disadvantage as a linear character in a 3D fighter, as these moves force the opponent into his line of attack. Not to mention you'll look flashy as hell, and be able to tangle with the best. The key is finding the right balance of attack and defense.
 
44A+B is a great tech catch, especially against things that push the opponent away. My favorite is B+G 44A+B. Hits way more than it should.
 
So I was playing the other day and did 22B ~ 3(B) out of habit, and maybe a bit of nostalgia. And it connected.

The match disconnected, so I have no replay, but I know what I did. I even dropped the Prep BB out of astonishment. At the very least, this is still a combo in at least one specific situation. Probably similar to how 22B ~ A+BA is a combo if you step just right.
 
B+K: Auto-evades and counters all verticals. The counter-attack has a guaranteed link to CE, and a back or side grab, if the opponent does not break it. Timing is very precise, so you'll need practice. There is one amazingly flashy application of this move - it evades Ezio's crossbow attacks at any range, teleports Raph right in front of him and counters, leading into the above combo. They never see it coming. It is awesome.
Something to keep in mind is that unlike most other aGIs of this type, there is no invincibility after the initial counter. This means if you successfully counter the first hit of some BBs the second hit will smack you out of it. Certain two-hit verticals don't seem to be aGIable at all, like Algol's FC 8B BE.

Also, after B+K's animation you get either a guaranteed CE or a mixup between a free backthrow (if they don't duck it) or a free mid (there's one mid in particular that works extremely well that you would never expect to work).

So I was playing the other day and did 22B ~ 3(B) out of habit, and maybe a bit of nostalgia. And it connected.

The match disconnected, so I have no replay, but I know what I did. I even dropped the Prep BB out of astonishment. At the very least, this is still a combo in at least one specific situation. Probably similar to how 22B ~ A+BA is a combo if you step just right.
There was some discussion about this after the 1.02 patch first came out. Apparently someone found a way to make the old 22B combo semi-consistent. I forget exactly how but it involved CaS.
 
There was some discussion about this after the 1.02 patch first came out. Apparently someone found a way to make the old 22B combo semi-consistent. I forget exactly how but it involved CaS.

Color edit 1P Raphael VS customized Patroklos. Customization may or may not screw with the hitbox, I don't know, but if there's a way to make this thing consistent, we should probably hit the lab.
 
Something to keep in mind is that unlike most other aGIs of this type, there is no invincibility after the initial counter. This means if you successfully counter the first hit of some BBs the second hit will smack you out of it. Certain two-hit verticals don't seem to be aGIable at all, like Algol's FC 8B BE.

Also, after B+K's animation you get either a guaranteed CE or a mixup between a free backthrow (if they don't duck it) or a free mid (there's one mid in particular that works extremely well that you would never expect to work).


Excellent point, completely forgot to mention that. It basically isn't going to work against BB. It's mainly for use against large movements or range pokes that you can see coming.

Which horizontal are you talking about after the counter connects, Slade?
 
Which horizontal are you talking about after the counter connects, Slade?

Assuming he's thinking of the same thing I am, and not some crazy Aeon-player secret tech, 8B+K is your mid of choice after a successful B+K. It's because the attack he does after the auto-evade pulls them directly to Raphael's left, which is perfect for it. Just remember to use 2B+K instead when you're 2P side, since which direction he stabs changes because of his orientation.
 
Anyways, here's my theory regarding 22B combo.

Pre-patch, 22B used to stun long enough that the opponent was in a standing state for 16F after Raphael recovers, allowing 3(B) combo. After the patch they only remain standing for about 14-15 frames (I need to test this), which prevents 3(B) from comboing. HOWEVER, like many moves, I'm assuming 22B has more than 1 active frame. So under perfect circumstances if your opponent runs into 22B after the first active frame and gets hit by the second (or even third, I need to test) active frame, Raphael recovers at +16 instead of +14~15, allowing 3(B) to combo even after the patch. This would be similar to the tip range stun on Pat's CH 44A giving +15 instead of the normal +14 at close range.

I'll test this all later.
 

Thank you very much, i'm practicing with him right now, I don't really know how to execute wall combos with Raphael but I love the SE - B start combos

I still have trouble with many of his GIs because most of them require timing and i'm still trying to get used to it.
it's always good to find more raphael players
 
8A+B is really strong when you know your opponent has a tendency to either 2A, AA or 236B stab. Upclose, preventing them from stepping, and hopefully your 6BB BE is a threat for anything slower from them.

Anyways 44A+B !W 3(B)~preBBB CE has an easier chance of scoring 170 than if you slapped in 3A W~ immediately after the UB. Why risk misaligning with 3A, when you can consistently perform the 3(B) afterwards anyways ?

44A+B W! 33K(BE) CE does about 174. Definately not easy to connect the 33K part, i'm actually not even sure how I managed to get it connect. Probably would only be used when nightmare is backed up to a wall and foolishly whiffs a CE of his own.
I swore I managed to connect 33K BE a few times after the wall splat. Way too unreliable though
 
8/2B+K works just fine after a 44A+B, last I checked (not been playing last few days,) so I don't see a reason to fear the 3A other than CE no longer being an option.

Ending on Prep B BE leaves you at a better mix-up position for more wall-games. Admittedly, a 1A locks them nicely in place after a CE, but you can find other ways to do that while capitalizing on the range.

Has anyone checked to see if the 66B K BE trap works after a 44A+B WS 66B yet?
 
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